“Isolated?! … Not ME!”
Many of you know that American Muslims (particularly those in certain dour movements) are some of the most isolated individuals one can ever meet. You will meet brothers that do not even know that the Super Bowl or NBA Finals is being played, much less which two teams are participating. They will declare ignorance of things like this to be “praiseworthy”.
I was having a discussion with a brother this morning that showed me once again just how isolated some American Muslims can be from the American society in general without them even realizing it. This brother was complaining that Americans are a very isolated people, they do not know their neighbors and do not socialize and would rather be alone in their own isolated world. He even said that a significant number of Americans are like Ted Kaczynski! Not that they would send mail bombs, but in that they are very isolated from each other and prefer being that way.
While it may be true that we Americans in general are not as close to our neighbors as we used to be, (or perhaps should be) but we still have close friends, associate with each other, go out to dinner with each other, watch sports, and do many other things together. It is just that in today’s age, the person we socialize with does not necessarily have to be the person living next door to us. But Americans DO socialize with each other.
After hearing this rationale and the facts, the brother disagreed and dismissed further conversation as “not being beneficial” (because he knows that he is right) then abruptly ended the conversation.
This was illustrative of just how isolated American Muslims often are from the world that is around them. This particular brother has very little interaction with non-Muslims, yet he is so certain that they are the way he has described them. People like this look at Americans just as someone who does not live in America would. And the brother I was talking to was an American convert!
Over time, brothers like this have so little human interaction with non-Muslims (other than at the store) that they begin to believe that what they read in the books and the news articles represent the average American.
Their world becomes so incredibly narrow, that they think that the bubble that they have constructed around themselves represents the reality of the world. Then they are shocked and offended when you point out to them that they are indeed aloof and distant. (Isolated?!…not ME!)
Rashad wrote a piece about the aloof and dour approach in this type of thinking in the context of the ”cut and paste” era. You isolate everyone around you. You isolate your non-Muslim family. Then after years you find that the only one who is truly isolated is YOU. The rest of the world has moved on.
Those of you reading my blog regularly probably know by now that I do not like this approach because it is so damaging ultimately not only to the one who adopts it, but also to that person’s family and those around him. This approach calls for you to repress all human emotion from yourself and try your best to turn yourself into a drone.
You come in and become Muslim and immediately EVERYTHING that you did was absolutely wrong! EVERYTHING! From the way you walk, the way you talk to the foods that you eat. You must squeeze all of the emotion out of yourself in order to become this mechanical (and hence “perfect”) Muslim. Those who question this approach must have their Iman questioned.
No laughing! No entertainment or fun with each other! Not even with your spouse. (ESPECIALLY not even with your spouse!) Everything is haraam! The “Perfect Muslim” is to live like the following:
- Go to work with a frown on your face. Do not interact any more than absolutely necessary to get a job done and go home. Show no humanity least you be temped to do some haraam! (This is why they have such a skewed view of how other Americans interact with each other)
- Go home with a frown on your face. Have a few classes, eat, maybe listen to a lecture on Paltalk, complain a little then go to bed. (Absolutely no fun in the house!!!)
- Go to the masjid with a frown on your face. If there is a good class: sit. If not, make a little fitnah about it, go outside and talk about the deviance of the other Muslims, pray then return home (see above)
- Repeat cycle
Masha Allah, now THAT brother is REALLY on the Sunnah!!!
You may ask how can they justify frowning all the time when the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was known to smile. Well, glad you asked. I was told a story that Salahudin never smiled until Jerusalem was re-captured from the crusaders. So how then are we smiling today???
So you are instructed never to smile. Never laugh. Always be pissed and angry about all the bid’ah in the Ummah.
You are not to develop any true, close and lasting friendships. You can’t be real friends. You are ‘classmates’. You are only supposed to know where a brother lives so that if he doesn’t show up for class, you can go ask him what happened. You can’t know their children.
However, years pass and one finds that if they are following that ‘manhaj’ to the letter, that they are completely isolated. Their relationship with their parents and siblings are damaged. They have no friends to trust. It is not natural.
When problems come, instead of perhaps looking to see that the approach is flawed, he makes excuses. Choose one:
1 - DENY the problem (Who ME?!)
2 - Ignore problem and place head in the sand (”I don’t see any problem”)
3 - When the problem is obvious, blow it off (”This conversation is of no benefit”)
4 - BLAME non-Muslims (”It’s all America’s fault”)
5 - Give the Islamic IDEAL to suggest that it is not a problem (i.e., “No corruption in Islam”/”No racism in Islam”)
However, the regular, everyday Muslims become torn between what is natural and these instructions on how to be this lifeless Muslim. Umar mentioned that he was at a lecture where the speaker said:
Many Muslims are depressed because they live two lives. One life when they are in here with Muslims and the other life they lead when they walk out of the door
The regular, everyday Muslim, who is under pressure to toe the line set above by the movement leaders is forced into this double life. At work, he may meet a co-worker he talks to, laughs with and jokes with. He may talk about the Super Bowl or the Basketball game that was on TV last night with them.
However, he feels that he is doing this from a weakness in Iman, and feels bad because he is supposed to be angry at work. But he cannot let his attitude at work carry over to the Masjid because he has to put on his “game face” and pretend that he is the stoic angry individual that he is required to be.
But over time, he is disturbed when he finds that he is actually forming a more natural human bond with his non-Muslim co-workers, than with his Muslim brothers at the masjid where he has this pretentious surface relationship and where he is hiding a significant portion of who he is. The relationship is not real at all. He has nothing in common with the people in the masjid at all because relationships are based upon unrealistic and unnatural ideals. Depression sets in.
If one is to maintain their sanity, then they must realize that they are a human being and repressing natural human emotions will only lead to psycological problems. It is OK to be human.
Afterall … that’s what we are.
* Update: When Community Breaks Down <–MUST READ
**Update 2: Coming to Terms - Good post by Umm Zaid, Masha Allah
Filed under: Convert Issues, Muslim Isolation, Sloganism over Reality, The Culture of Denial and Pretense
Again, sadly, you are correct.
Now, when I was trying (desperately trying) to be this person that I read about in books and heard about in duroos (yes, I used TWO ‘O’s lol), I actually felt myself becoming what I use to accuse others of - dhu-wajhain - a person with two faces. But after years working in the same place, I have come to find that I DO know a lot more about my non-Muslim co-workers than I know about the Muslims in my own “community”.
I use the word “community” very loosely because in reality, I don’t have much in common with the immigrants who’ve imported their culture and issues into the masjid - and I do not have much in common with a bunch of Americans who seemed to act more foreign than the immigrants. At least the immigrants have real family bonds and could “let their hair down” so to speak and live like regular folk without fear of being accused of having weak iman for catching a movie or enjoying themsleves. So like Tariq (or if you prefer Taariq) alluded to in an earlier post, the community, in reality consists of a temporary congregating of people from different backgrounds for a few minutes, a few times a day, while being courteous, yet not necessarily close. Friendly, but not necessarily friends. Many times brothers would not see me in the masjid for a while and when I did show up, would ask, “where have you been, brother?” as if very concerned - yet, the brother didn’t even know my name. And to be honest, I made no real effort to know him. Just a familiar face in the salat line.
Another example (and Tariq may concur): American brothers rarely, and I mean RARELY speak about their wives and children as if they are real people. I mean, they don’t use their names. It’s always, “My wife this, my son that…” You can know a brother for years and not know the name of his wife. As if knowing a brother’s wife’s name is the equivelant of seeing her naked. How can we ever really be friends like this? Brothers refer to their wives as their “family”. Where in the world did that come from? You can know a brother for years and his life is a mystery and yours is too.
Yet another example: How often do you find American brothers refer to another Muslim as “friend”? Hardly ever. We say the word “brother” as if it is an endearing epithet - when in reality, we are only referring to these strangers that we barely know as “brother” because Allah has said we are brothers. And the sad part is that some brothers think that that is as far as it needs to go. That beings friends - real friends is not “beneficial” and is not from Islam. La ilaha illallah.
But my non-Muslim co-workers and neighbors?? - Oh man, they tell me EVERYTHING man. I know names, birthdates, what they did on vacation, when the babies took their first steps, what they are allergic to, in other words - REAL, HUMAN INTERACTION. The things that we humans need in order to function. Natural human contact. These people open themselves up to me with no pretenses and no fakery. I have never really had those type of completely honest and sincere conversations at the masjid because no one is willing to show who they really are and everyone is hiding their precious hidden life so that no one can peek inside and see that they have the same problems and hang-ups that every other human has. No, at the masjid, we all have the ‘S’ on our collective chests.
Go Heat!!
Assalamu alaikum, wow, I think I was shielded from this in that for various reasons, I was never able to get to the masjid that much. Maybe that was a blessing in disguise! Hmmm…
Mashallah, very well said, Tariq.
And, the problems and isolation are only exacerbated if you happen to be educated or have an interest outside the very narrow menu of ‘permissable interests’ in that particular community. There is little to no tolerance for individuality in the Muslim community. Instead, the community forces everyone who enters it to dissimulate: dumbing down their interactions, hiding whatever secular achievements they might make in life, and memorising by rote a set of politically-correct positions that they need to regurgiate in response to issues such as Palestine, women, or the reasons for Muslim failure. It’s a miserable situation for anyone who ends up in it and, for this reason, many of the people who don’t fit the mould either end up leaving Islam or seperating themselves from the community. Very few are able to maintain this soul-destroying charade for their entire lives and, even if they could, I can imagine few things more depressing than reaching old age and realising that you have basically wasted your human potential in order to maintain some vacuous notion of ‘unity’.
I can give many examples but one of the more common ones is people who are studying, become Muslim and then, based on the advice of some sheikh, abandon their studies because it is deemed haram. They get married (often to a woman whom they cannot relate to intellectually because, after all, all that matters is her religion), end up taking a job that is beneath their talents and half-completed education, have kids, and end up on a treadmill that it is very difficult to leave. Even if, after ten years, they realised that the advice they were given was wrong, they have lost the opportunity. There are a great many brothers here who have fallen into this trap and it is really heart-breaking to see people who, when you first knew them, were bright students studying medicine or engineering or whatever, but then now they are reduced to automata working any job they can find to support their wife and four, five or six children. Unfortunately, I don’t see how this trend can be reversed.
Another great post Tariq. First of all, the brother needed to be reminded that Salah ad-Deen was not a prophet, so unless I am wrong, there is no reward in following his path. Mohammed, a Prophet of God, did joke, smile and play games. He was known to flirt and play games with his wife.
You know, if we as Muslims know that God will make everything just and equal, why the need for the frowns? To me a frown denotes that you do not think that God’s creation is beautiful.
I have known these types, one guy at work I have seen smile only once in 3 years now. This after driving with him to Jummah prayers for years with him. I wouldnt be friends with such a person.
My wife and I are best friends, we joke, laugh, flirt and play. I view all of that as being as much a part of the Sunnah as a beard. Same with helping with chores around the house. The Prophet did that as well.
I just hate the pick and choose nature of people who claim to follow the Sunnah. The “pick and choose” nature was one of the reasons I left Christianity. These brothers would jump at the chance to have four wives, yeet wouldnt support them right. They also wouldnt marry divocees and widows as the Prophet did.
These guys, as well as much of the community around them, have lost the real spirit of Islam. May God grant them hediya.
Amir:
Subhanullah, so that happens in Australia too?! I constantly have to talk young African-American college students into staying in school. But they have 10 other brothers encouraging them to quit and hurry to get married to some sister they don't know. No practical talk of the responsibilities of marriage and family life.
To be frank, here in America "I want to get married" amongst many converts has come to mean "I want to have (halaal) sex". Those that are married responsibly know that there is a massive difference
A brother recently came to me who had just turned 40 and stated exactly what you said above. He and his wife have NOTHING in common, he is stuck working menial jobs, is constantly behind in his bills and has very little money to pay for things like islamic schooling etc. He now sees that he made a mistake, but it is too late.
Abu Sinan:
You are right, but I think that story about Salahudin is a myth. Salahudin was known for his outstanding character.
I have been there myself isolated in the Muslim community surrounded by Muslims all day, every day and living in a fantasy world, and then suddenly being thrusted into situations where I am surrounded by non-Muslims, people like those Americans I grew up with, who I cannot relate to at all. Out of fear of this I think many Muslims just retreat into the community and become totally disassociated from the greater community out of some false sense of piety. They live in towns where they don’t even know the mayors and then sneak and watch the NFL like a thief in the night and think this is all healthy.
Do you guys think this is a male thing, because I do not relate to this. Maybe women are more prone to developing deeper bonds and friendships than men.
And I also think this is a whole lot less common with younger Muslims (under 25). It seems like they form friendships because most of them are American born and raised although there is some cliquishness based on background and/or class
Um Abdillah:
As far as Muslim to Muslim relationships, yes I think it may be more of a male thing. However it affects the sisters in many cases in that they are married to many of these brothers who rule the home with an unrelenting Iron Fist while enforcing these un-natural rules.
As I mentioned above, many brothers think that to laugh and play with their wife is somehow un-Islamic and the home life must be fully dedicated to reading books and/or listening to lectures. That is when they are not eating. This makes the home life absolutely miserable for the sisters married to men with this understanding and contributes to the outrageous divorce rate amongst African-American Muslims and this is where a sister would become depressed.
So in the end, it does not only affect the women, but probably even more so
[...] Tariq Nelson has an excellent piece on a social problem that will be familiar to many Australian Muslims: the pressure to conform that comes not from the broader non-Muslim community but from the Muslim community itself. The regular, everyday Muslim, who is under pressure to toe the line set above by the movement leaders is forced into this double life. At work, he may meet a co-worker he talks to, laughs with and jokes with. He may talk about the Super Bowl or the Basketball game that was on TV last night with them. [...]
As salaamu ‘alaykum,
Bro. Tariq, I can recognize some of the issues you mention, and agree we need to work on them. In my experience some of the issues you mentioned are either exaggerated or pretty rare, but Allaah knows best.
I think we get the problem, now let’s start building a solution.
I would be a lot more inspired by your blog if you were talking about how your community has solved all these problems rather than simply a bunch of us repeating what the problems are on and on and on…..
(Please forgive me if that sounds offensive I mean it exactly as it is written and please take it as sincere nasiha from a brother who loves you for the sake of Allaah).
On a sidenote, an article in the Washington Post today
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/22/AR2006062201763_pf.html
would seem to back up what the brother was saying about how isolated Americans themselves are. The survey said 25 percent of Americans have no one with whom they can discuss personal troubles. This is more than twice as many who said the same thing as recently as 1985.
Salaam,
Abu Noor
Abu Noor:
I appreciate your comments. I agree with you 100% on trying to find solutions. However, in my own experience, I have had problems with people even RECOGNIZING these problems even exist. That is why I feel that we must first bring the issues to the table. We can't solve a problem until we first recognize this exists. That is why in my old community we failed to solve many of these problems. Especially where African-American Muslims are concerned
Brothers that know me and have worked with me on the ground know that that task, for me, has been like pulling teeth. That is part of the reason I started this blog.
I also do more in the community to solve these problems. But by connecting with like minded brothers who see these issues, perhaps we can begin to come together to solve these issues. That can't be done as long as we bury our heads in the sand.
I posted on this blog some of the work that you all have done in Chicago as potential solutions.
As for what the brother was saying, I know him and trust me…he has a very skewed view of Americans in general. He was basically saying that Americans are extreme introverts that do not socialize at all. This article is saying that Americans don't have anyone to confide in. And 25% is a far cry from a blanket generalization that Americans are not social at all.
One thing is very clear, and that is that people are feeling very depressed right now.
I have stated that the best thing that we can do as individuals is get our own homes in order and raise our children properly. Anytime I hear a brother being given bad advice, (such as dropping out of school) I try to give him more practical and Insha Allah, correct advice. Khutbahs could be given to stress personal responsibility and hard work instead of unintentionally doing the opposite. But before any of those things are done, we must first recognize the problem.
Perhaps you can share with us some of the things that you are doing to solve these issues that I am addressing
salaam alaikum
Abu Noor, I don't know how much you get around, but I can tell you that these issues are not rare nor exagerrated. Maybe in the immigrant community it is, but amongst Blackamerican Muslims there are a lot of problems. People are leaving Islam over this stuff. Perhaps it is rare where you live or perhaps there are not that many Blackamerican Muslims for you to see these things, but I can tell you that it exists
Bro. Abdullah,
I can assure you I have spent much time around Blackamerican Muslims. And I specifically said I recognized some of the issues that Bro. Tariq was mentioning but thought they were exaggerated and/or rare.
Specifically I have spent a great deal of time around Salafi Muslims and while I have my issues with many of them, I never met one who didn’t smile and some of them were the biggest jokers (as in always telling jokes) that I have met in my life.
Jazzak Allaahu Khayr for your response to my comment though.
Spent my fair share around Salafi Muslims too. Many of them can be very mean.
I was just going to post that Wash Post article.
Regarding marriage, I do know of some marriages like that and I think those types of people look at marriage like a contract (its all about his rights/her rights) and not a relationship. I think its sad but if they can find friendships with sisters outside of the marriage, insha Allah they are satisfied with that. Marriage can be confusing for new Muslims or if you were born Muslim but came back to the deen. All you know is you can’t date, there is no American paradigm for marriage without dating, so they go to taking literally from hadith (without wise guidance) which just doesn’t work often in our modern day context.
I was thinking the other day about when my kids get older which is years and years away, if Allah so wills, but I wondered if Islamically could we go on family outings with potential suitors, like chaparoned dating or something. I don’t know how it would work because I definitely do not want to marry my daughter (or son for that matter) off to someone we don’t know pretty well. Ideally Muslim families who have know each other for years will have their children marry. Anyway, this is why building a community is so important not just for the adults for the future of our children.
Just thought about it. Perhaps it is just that the Salafis don’t smile to the rest of us
As salaamu ‘alaykum Tariq,
I feel you bro and I know that you have made efforts to work on these issues.
With regard to the Americans being isolated, I just found it ironic that I saw that article right after reading your post. My only larger point would be that I basically divide most of the problems you mention into two categories in my mind. Some of the stuff is really a product of American or BlackAmerican or inner city or whatever issues that is reflected in the Muslims because we are products of that environment.
The rest of the stuff, which is based on some misunderstanding of Islamic teachings or extremism, etc. is what I think is either exaggerated or involves a small number of people. And even some of this stuff I think is just “American” problems for which some people make Islamic excuses. In Inner City America in general there are problems with unemployment, messed up families, lack of higher education, lack of community institution builiding, etc. etc. So if we blame the fact that a brother is unemployed on the fact that he’s salafi we should first check and see if maybe he’s unemployed for the same reasons that so many other BlackAmericans around him are unemployed rather than because he is a Salafi, regardless of what even he might say.
As you’ve mentioned before, these are major societal issues that were not created by the Muslims.
Now I do believe that these issues can be solved by Islam, but its going to be a long hard struggle and its going to take time. In fact, its going to take generations at best.
I agree on the importance of recognizing problems (already I disagree with some of your assessment of the problems, although I also agree with much of it) it just seemed to me that I hear a LOT of people raising the same issues that you are raising. I think its time to move on to the solution stage. Maybe people are recognizing it because of people like you, Jazzak Allaahu Khayr.
I will try to continue sharing some things we’ve tried with you and your readers, but for sure we still have plenty of problems here in my community so I am going to need a lot of suggestions from you too.
May Allaah (swt) help us in our struggle! Ameen, Ya Rabbil - ‘Alameen!
Salaam
Abdul-Malik
Abdullah,
Are you from the East Coast?
I think the issues re: Salafis are different here in Chicago because the “hardcore” Salafis (by this I mean the ones who actually call themselves Salafis) are very few here.
Of course all this raises the question of what each of us means by the term “Salafi”?
I hate it whenever anybody is mean. I’m sorry to hear about your experience.
May Allaah (swt) forgive and guide all of us to unite upon His deen and to display the manners of His prophet! Ameen!
Abu Noor:
In my initial articles I basically made the same distinctions. The problem I mentioned was that I feel that certain movements (not only Salafis) unintentionally foster some of the worse habits a brother may have coming into Islam. I wrote about that here. Look at what I have said in context of what I have written previously. That is why I try to provide links.
You will not hear a Salafi, for example, tell a brother not to get a job, but they emphasize issues that brothers don't necessarily need to hear. They need to hear Islam's emphasis on hard work and paternal investment rather than acetism. I know and have seen how a perfectly good message can be taken one way by one group and taken another damaging way by another.
I have also mentioned previously that many converts are getting married way to fast and it is disasterous. We hardly here people talk about the need to actually know who you are marrying and compatibility beyond the texts.
I find it telling that although I haven't mentioned Salafis by name, this is who people think of. I do not only mean them though. This is why I have not mentioned any group specifically.
I'm in Philly, Abu Noor…Enough said!
There are many here. Any reasonable person here will tell you a ton of sad stories regarding them. So I think that is the basis of our differences of perspective. They have done MUCH damage
As salaamu ‘alaykum Tariq,
I read some but not all of the earlier pieces…I know you made those points and I’m sorry if I misrepresented what you are saying in my comment.
It seems many of your comments are ones stereotypically made about “Salafis” Ma Sha Allaah I’m glad to hear you clarify that you are making general statements about the issues facing Muslims. One of my biggest concerns is if people start to think any of these major systemic problems facing our community would go away if people stopping reading Muhammad ibn Abdul-Wahhab or even if people stopped listening to foreign imams, then they are sadly underestimating the problems and their causes so I’m happy to understand better the point you are actually making.
Abdullah,
I guess that does explain it. It really saddens me to hear some of the ‘horror stories’ out of the East Coast, and particularly your own city.
Although I also hear a lot thats good about Philly, I hope those stories are true as well.
You are upset because you think your friend was stereotyping, then you turned around and did the same. Not all American Muslims are the way you describe them in your blog.
Your friend was probably referring to a recent study, and trying to have an “important discussion” about it when you batted him down. He was rightfully frustrated with you.
There was a study (link in my blog) that showed that people have important discussions with fewer people now than they did 20 years ago. That means people in general, those that were questioned, are more isolated. Does that mean everybody is? No. If you have a wide circle of friends, congratulations, but that doesn’t make the entire study wrong, does it?
Shelina:
I said ALL American Muslims are like this??
If 25% of Americans don’t have anyone to confide in, then I wouldn’t be surprised if 85% of American Muslim converts do not have anyone to confide in. You can ride in the car with four brothers and have a discussion and even be friends to a certain level, but you are not going to be talking about the things that are really bothering you because everyone is keeping up a facade of piety.
I can’t tell you how many brothers I have met that secretly had drug and alcohol problems and did not want to seek help because of this facade we have to keep up.
I have met thousands of American Muslim brothers (and I’m not exaggerating) including Tariq who I have known over 11 years. Most of the brothers are Masha Allah good brothers, but I have also seen things that would make those of you who say this is exaggeration eyes pop out
I have met brothers with professional careers, had significant athletic accomplishments and had interesting hobbies, yet they were afraid to bring these things up at the masjid for fear of castigation. And these brothers are made to feel inferior to the guys who sit in the masjid all day listening to lectures, has 2-3 wives he is not taking care of not to mention the children, but has memorized more dogma points than the brother.
I also know brothers that have sadly left Islam completely. Others stop practicing. There have been many traumatic experiences. This can’t be denied.
Umar you are right. I can tell you that what is written here is real because I live it. I haven’t been to the masjid in months not even Jumuah. I used to debate on whether or not to even go, then I did not go and haven’t been in months. Not saying that I am right, but it is all the more frustrating for me to see people pretent people like me are not real
As salaamu ‘alaykum Bro. Ashamed,
I mentioned specifically that I thought some of the problems mentioned by Bro. Tariq were rare or exaggerated.
Bro. Umar, who says he disagrees with me, says in his own comment that ‘most’ of the ‘thousands’ of American Muslims he has met are ‘good brothers.’ So maybe we just disagree on what the terms ‘exaggerate’ and ‘rare’ mean.
In any event, at no time did I or anyone else as far as I know say that brothers like you are ‘not real.’
Tariq was talking about people who do attend the masjids and act in ways or make statements that are problematic. No where did I see any discussion of the fact that there are many Muslims who do not attend any mosque regularly. That is, sadly, a fact none of us can deny, although some of us may disagree about the reasons.
May Allaah (swt) bless you.
I feel responsible to try to help you bro. Ashamed in any way I can but since I don’t know where you are or what you may need, obviously I cannot do that. I ask Allaah (swt) to ease your hardships and unite us in Jannah. Ameen!
Asalam alaikum
I think to a large extent you have just categorised a large majority of Muslims in one box. I think its unfair for you to think that of so many muslims. Prior to practising Islam one is a very different individual with interests such as music, dancing, football..or what you guys call soccer. However, over the years that ou start enveloping Islam into your life these things become unimportant..mere distractions in your path of sulook and thus you move away from these actions..hence you become isolated from particular conversations with your non-muslim colleagues at work. There is a rela problem how its Ok to speak to colleagues at work who dont understand how social-mixing is Haraam but then with other Muslims you act in a stern manner…you do feel like a hypocrite and thus it may lead to you isolating yourself more but I dont see how this makes you less American or less British…there are other things which cause you to have an attachement with your country…why is it that if your muslim and you dont know about the NBA games or football in the Uk that this makes you unpatriotic…hwoever if a non-muslim was to not involve himslef in the same interest that would be seen as acceptable…its just a double standard. I see myslef as a Muslim first and also as British, as Islam is my belief in Allah the Creator and Sustainer, Lord of the Worlds whereas Britishness is just my culture. If we were to look back at the times of the Sahabah and our Beloved RasoolAllah sallalahu alaihi wasalam their Deen came first, never to be compromised and their culture, that which was haraam was left to the side and that which was halal was taken up. I think that should stand for Muslims today and in no way do I see staying away from the Haraam as a bad thing…even if it means one becomes isolated.
I pray I havent offended you in anyway, as that way not my intention. I just want you to view things from the opposite side. I speak from experience of such things and I no longer feel that it is acceptable for me to indulge in activities which waste time suh as Tv and I do not think that this isolates you from society if you dont want it to…I still find I am able to hold perfectly decent conversation with non muslims on a daily basis
salaam abu Noor and Tariq,
both of you are right - and semantics is an issue. People always ‘hear what they want to hear’, and trust me, I wouldn’t care less if those who called themselves ‘Salafis’ wanted to pray restrictively and punish themselves [personally] harshly, as there are Sahaba who did and there are rukhsa for that, but imposing that on others is the issue. Pushing dogma on to people is the more general issue, feeling self-satisfied ["I'm pure, fulan is human waste"] is part of the reason, and sectarian bigotry is the result - once again, “Salafi”s aren’t the only group doing this, but it’s notable that people grasp the psychological problem very quickly there.
I should add that I’ve spent 10 years as a muslim, lived with Deobandi Tableeghis for more than a year, 2 with Salafis, and others with different American [or Canadian
] muslim groups - (though I didn’t share all their views, I can admire different factors in each: Deobandis are devoted to faith, Salafis are strictly disciplined about Salaat and reading of the Qur’an, and the Sufi/Traditional groups have the most generous spirits and educational programs.
May Allah guide us, but discussing the problems is part of the solution - and the muslim community is exposed daily in the newspapers, abu Noor, are you avoiding the mirror (or intense interrogation arc-light) that we face from non-muslim society? “Wash your dirty laundry, or we’ll toss you all out” seems to be the message. the Turkish proverb goes: “Clean your own backyard before you tell your neighbour about his.”
[...] #3: The extremist/lunatic fringe exists! And it claims to speak for all Muslims and they are very loud (particularly in the UK as far as the West is concerned). If we do not disavow someone who claims to speak for all of us, then in my mind, our collective silence will be seen as approval. And will lead to more denial of our internal problems (What fringe element?!) So, we need to stop burying our heads in the sand on this one. [...]
bismillahi wassalat wassalam al rasulullah
my advice is to understand the word salafi as a word that is good for a muslim to call himself and particularly those who practice islam according to the way Allah commands his prophet and how the slaf understood it. acertisim or not acertisim, ealry marriage or not early marriage allow this issue most be understand according to the way of salaf without extrimism.
i dont see anything bad in getting married with the little one has, we have companions of the prophet who got married without anything at hand and the prophet gave them the permission to marry. western education might become compulsary on individual provided we have some muslum who are still seeking for the knowledge and such person will not be affected if he shuns western education. finally let advice and preach n how muslim are to become united and practice islam as the way the salaf saluhin(right predesessor) practice their own islam .
Alhamdulillah for Salafiyyah, As Salafiyyah is nothing more then Ahlus Sunnah wa Jamaa’ah, and Ahlus Sunnah are those who come togather to follow the sunnah and the way of the Sahabah, and if the people think thats wrong or have a issue with it then I will be wrong every day of the week to be right for just one moment in the eyes of Allaah ta ala.
I found much in the posts that I agreeded with and much I disagreed with, this is ramadan so lets try not to down our Muslim brothers and sister and put all people in one basket and say “those” people are like this.
As far as football scores and what brother such and such wifes names is this is kind of lame, I attend masjid Tawheed which is an Ahlus Sunnah/Salafiyyon masjid but Alhamdulillah that I found this Masjid it is the best thing that ever happened to me. I was given shahadah by a Sufi, and went to evey Masjid in Detroit and I was treated good in some places and not so good some places, but I can say for sure there is nothing like Ahlus Sunnah and the love between Ahlus Sunnah real because it is for the sake of Allaah not for the sake of we both like baseball or whatever.
And we all need to fear Allaah this would take care of a great deal of our issues, and cars and careers and stuff are ok but remeber the Akhirah.
My ex-fiancee left Islam over this kind of foolishness! We both come from upper/upper middle class households that placed a great deal of emphasis on both intellectual pursuits and freedom of thought. He was constantly accosted by people trying to force ridiculous opinions about the fact that “palestinian suicide bombers are martyrs”, and that he should not be so aggressive in his academic pursuits. HE WAS A MED STUDENT AT HARVARD! WHO SUGGESTS THAT A HARVARD MED STUDENT SPEND LESS TIME STUDYING?!?
Anyhow, it got to be too much for him and he apostated. He never lost his witts, but concluded that if this is what it means to be a Muslim then perhaps he was mistaken in converting.
The crazy thing is that it is so rare to encounter brothers of that caliber- precisely for this reason (being encouraged to drop out, lack of emphasis on education, etc) so I really took it personally. For a while I wondered if I would ever find anyone since he and I had so much in common as far as upbringing and organizational affiliations, etc. I was afraid that if he and I had so much in common and after looking for years he was the only brother I had encountered who was what I wanted that perhaps I don’t want/am not destined to be with a Muslim. That was really shocking for me.
That was three years ago. Al hamdulilah I am ok being single and much prefer it to putting myself on the rotating wife circuit but it still saddens me that the pickings are SO slim.
I know many who have left Islam, but he was the most significant in my life.
Subhanallah Kamilah! That is so sad. May Allah give you someone better than him, who is good for you in this life and the next…aameen.
To concur w/ Tariq and everyone. This problem does exist, in particular to reverted Muslims - regardless of race. I am one of them. Its unfortunate that if I really need any help in this life, my family and non-Muslim “friends” would be there for me. I don’t even know the people at the masjid and you pray next to these people all the time. Even for fajr and isha were there are fewer people, especially in the summer time, if you are gone for a week because you sick (as once was my case) - you would be noted as being missed but no one would know why or care to know about your situation. I had one brother say it must have been hard for me to wake up! I told that fool I had the flu and was bedridden - where was he at with the chicken soup and juice? He was quite embarrassed and avoided me after that but this is the mindset of some of these guys. By the way, he never smiled, talked rough to his wife and kid but he made all of this salat at the masjid. Thank God I have no need of these people.
As far as AA Muslims and higher education - I took a year off of my grad studies to learn the Deen at the masjid. What did I get out of it, I just graduated a year later - I did not learn anything because the people that lived in the masjid just rehashed the problems of the Muslims, talked about jihad (at the time) and read books. No one offered an Arabic class or Tajweed class - everyone just ignorant but going to college was “haram” for some. Some of the brothers did not graduate high school. Sadly, they were all reverts - the immigrant Muslims “were chasing dunya” as hard as possible - but because of there efforts - they run the politics of the masjid because they contribute the most money to the building and maintenance of the masjid. To some, reverted Muslims are just “taking up space” and don’t really contri bute to the financial aspect of Muslim communial life - so they don’t have anything to say as far as the negative issues are concern. Even in the Islamic world, its C.R.E.A.M. (Cash Rule Everything Around Me).
AsSalaamu Alaikum. Wow, these comments are really interesting, and I only found these like yesterday. It IS a great relief to find that there are many who see the same problems that I do, and also to be informed of problems that I had not noticed. For me, I believe being ‘Muslim’ should be enough for everyone. If you say you are salafi, some will commend you and others will call you an extremist or whatever. If you say you are sufi, some will call you generous, others will call you an innovator. If you call yourself from Ahlis-Sunnah, some will relate to you, while others say you are not on the right ‘manhaj.’ To each is its own. For me, I know what my beliefs are, and what my practices are. See, we put emphasis on things that should not be emphasized. We need to go back to the individual. I remember that I used to admire every single group out there, and also have issues with them all. The fact of the matter is, you are YOU. You can’t be called good or bad, righteous or unrighteous, ahlus-sunnah or ahlul-bida’ because of what you call yourself. Only Allah knows what is in the heart of people. So now, when I hear people talking about Salafis, sufis, wahabis, even shia’s…I just brush it off. We need to talk about self upliftment. We are ONE ummah, so lets focus on getting back the adaab of the prophet(SAW) on the individual level. Lets stop stereotyping GROUPS and their issues because as long as we do that, there will always be groups and we will never be united. I pray that Allah guides us all. No one should feel secure of himself, and no one should believe that they are better or righter than their fellow muslim no matter how it might appear to them. Like I said, only Allah is the judge………..Ever hear about that guy who entered in the mosque at the time of the prophet(SAW) and was called by him(SAW) a person of Jannah? Why? Becasue before he would go to sleep every night, he would clease his heart of any animosity or grudges or hatred or anything toward ALL muslims, ALL who say Laa ilaaha illallah. EVERYONE. We need to get back to that for sure. Yeah…….if people don’t know about the problem ,then there is no way to solve it…i agree. All in still, we need to focus on the individual: the softening of the heart, learning the deen, and having good adaab. Wa Salaam
[...] and unity with one another, and a focus on Muslim life here in America, to a long period of “dropping out” of their communities and instead engaging in “inter-Muslim polemics” that led to no [...]
[...] The massive social problems that plagued the TROID side of the split, was not on the IANA side. But that was largely because many of those with social problems – largely African-Americans - were attracted to TROID’s calls to discord and chaos. And that is what made it so sad. A bowl of fruit had been offered to starving men, and TROID (and their likes) came along and took a dump in it and told everyone that this was an improvement. [...]