The Pope must die????
OK, enough is enough…
I have been watching the (sadly typical) response from many Muslims on the Pope’s remarks and it has gone from being (typically) embarassing to downright insane.
How can you convince anyone that Islam is non-violent by burning down churches, killing a nun, harassing Catholics on their way out of church services, threatening to kill all Christians and calling for the Pope to be hunted down and killed?
YES!!! A chance to be angry about something and prove the point once again that we are irrational and violent!!!!!!!
Let’s see, what does the “Culture of Denial and Pretense” playbook say in this situation of feeling embarassed:
- If you see media pictures of Muslims acting like maniacs, then it must be a Jewish Media conspiracy. Don’t believe it. It is ALL A LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But this rule overrides:
- Blame the Kufaar! Avoid introspection at all costs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(The “Culture of Denial and Pretense” playbook calls for plenty of exclamation marks)
Link: American Muslims must find their voice and condemn violence
A parting thought for my Muslim readers: When was the last time you invited a non-Muslim friend to your home for a chat over a meal or a cup of coffee?
Link: Pope’s apology not enough for Muslims
Link: Nun killed after Pope’s speech
Link: Christian killed in Iraq in response to Pope’s speech
Link: Londoners told: “Pope must die”
Link: Somali Islamists urged to slay Pope
Link: Iraqis burn effigy of Pope
Link: Kashmiris burn effigy of Pope
Yusuf Smith: Pope criticises, Anjem embarasses
Filed under: Muslim Isolation, Sloganism over Reality, The Culture of Denial and Pretense
Yeah, I listened to John Hagee, the evangelical minister on the way home from work today. I wish God would “rapture” all of the extremists away.
I am done listening or even putting up with these idiots. It is crap like this that makes me withdraw from the community. I know it would be better to engage, but I am sick of it.
The Pope, bin Laden, birds of a feather. He is no John Paul, and the idiots protesting him have proved his point.
salaamualaikum
One thing i noticed ,how come these protests are restricted to the muslims who are not really finanically well off or are facing problems in their daily life.where are the effigy burnings and death threats from kuwait/saudi/UAE but its from Iraq/Kashmir/Palestine…. Do these muslims use to these issues as a time to show the frustration and anger they have with in the themsevles …Anybody agree with me ?
I haven’t seen any clear evidence that the nun was killed because of the Pope’s comments. I keep hearing that repeated accusation as if it is said enough times it becomes true. The shooter has neither been captured nor revealed a motive.
“I haven’t seen any clear evidence that the nun was killed because of the Pope’s comments “Muslim Apple:
Problem is that with so many irresponsible statements being made about killing Christians etc, it is a little hard to believe under the circumstances that it was just a random killing. Hospital officials have said that she was ambushed.
Either way, it was senseless
[...] The Muslim street is fulminating with rage in response to a recent speech by Pope Benedict, in which the Pope quoted an early Christian emperor who had described Islam’s teachings as “evil and inhuman”. [...]
Salam alaykum, all.
You know what? Muslims are ghetto in our cultures and traditions, which fall short of what Allah legislated for human beings, and even lower species. You can shoot a female gorilla to death and lock up her baby, but the baby gorilla will grow to 10 times a man’s strength. Still, he won’t kill a human being aside from aggressors or the one that shot his mother. The others he’ll leave in peace.
Why should they be more noble than we as Muslims, when we’re commanded to be more noble than the rest of humanity, even when we should be more militant than we are?
So the pope quoted a previous pope, and we reacted like he was making an original comment from himself?! You ghetto, non-listening, suicidal, illitierate fothermuckers! (Thanks for that style of not cursing, Silverback.) Fhat the wuck is going through your minds?
And to you moderate wimps on the opposite extreme, grow some courage! Those who insult the prophet publicly and inciting others against him were killed. Not the one who threw trash in his yard, but the one who wrote poetry against him and recited it, and those who spoke to incite hatred against him. So that is a capital offense, but to quote someone else who did it without attempting to make the statement original to your sentiment is not the same thing! So have the courage to tell people that had the Pope actually insulted the Prophet, he’d deserve to die under our rules, not the nun in Somalia doing charity work! But also have the caution to get the facts before flying off the handle and rushing to either apologize and wave the peace flag or to execute someone for insulting our Prophet, may Allah’s peace and blessings be on him.
You punked moderates and ghetto-azz retaliators! both you in your opposite extremes make the sincere sick! Can’t read four verses of the Qur’an with any understanding, and you STILL want to rush to give opinions and reactions with half of the facts! The former of you want to wave the peace flag and have dialogue with those actually DO insult our Prophet (saws) and the latter of you ( I mean specifiically those who did this) want to kill every uninvolved non-Muslim because they’re easy targets! You’re both cowards! But the former of you are more numerous and vocal, apologizing for your sisters’ and brothers’ righteous anger for the sake of Allah! You’re punks, and you should learn the fiqh of jihad and harshness against the kuffar before trying so hard to get along with them!
There is a lot of focus on the nun but I’ve read many differing accounts of the events surrounding the shooting and it seems the nun, her bodyguard, and some other hospital worker were shot.
Black Lion,
Is it possible for you to express yourself effectively without cursing or using disguised curse words and ample name calling?
Can’t read four verses of the Qur’an with any understanding, and you STILL want to rush to give opinions and reactions with half of the facts!
Says the individual who (still) thinks the pope was “quoting another pope”. Have you actually read what was said, or are your relying on “half the facts” yourself? Practice, preach etc.
wasalam
Catholic responses
Jim Tucker: The lecture was about Logos — reason, reasonableness, rationality — as the necessary underpinning both of faith and secular society, that without a common ground of reason, then conversation becomes impossible, violence drives out discour…
“but the one who wrote poetry against him and recited it”
That story is incorrect. The so-called ‘Hadith’ that reported the incident was one with a very doubtful isnad (chain of narration) and is not considered to be a Sahih Hadith.
More details here: http://www.answering-christianity.com/karim/forgeries_about_killing.htm
In truth, the Prophet (peace be upon him) did NOT EVER kill anyone for insulting him. Indeed, there are numerous examples of times - during both Makkan and Madinan periods - when people mocked, insulted, and even cursed the Prophet (peace be upon him), but the Prophet never called for the deaths of those responsible. Instead, he would make du’aa either that Allah guide those people to Islam (as in the case of ‘Umar) or that they be destroyed (as in the case of those who threw the innards of a camel upon the Prophet while he was in Sajdah).
The most striking example is that of the Jewish woman who poisoned the meat of the Prophet (peace be upon him).
Narrated Anas bin Malik: A Jewish woman brought a poisoned (cooked) sheep for the Prophet who ate from it. She was brought to the Prophet and he was asked, “Shall we kill her?” He said, “No.” I continued to see the effect of the poison on the palate of the mouth of God’s Apostle.
(Sahih Bukhari, volume 3, #786)
So if the Prophet forbade his Companions from killing the woman who poisoned his meat (which led to the illness and subsequent death of the Prophet), how can we then say that we need to kill those who insult the Prophet (peace be upon him)? This is totally contrary to the Sunnah!
No, what we need to keep in mind is the way the Prophet (peace be upon him) used to deal with the people who mocked him, insulted him, and hurt him - du’aa, not violence, was his weapon. And that’s what WE need to do.
May Allah guide us and keep us upon as-Siraatul Mustaqeem, and protect us from all evil and error, ameen!
Your little sister in Islam,
AnonyMouse
AnonyMouse, havent you heard of the hadith of Kab ibn al Ashraf? Please do find it and read it. While your at it, maybe you can also read up on this topic from the classical sunni perspective by perusing such works as Imam Qadi Iyads ash Shifa, and even though i have theological differences with him, Ibn Taymiyahs as Sarim al Maslul.
[...] Meanwhile in the Muslim blogosphere many people have blogged about the Pope-issue and its consequences and also outside. One of the questions that frequently comes up in the debates where I am or at my blog, is where are the moderate Muslims? The real losers here might be those Muslims who, although they might feel offended, hate the use of violence and prefer the fellow Muslims to tackle other painful and pertitent cases such as Darfur or the Hudud laws or the Andijan massacre. [...]
Popegate and the Muslim response
(This post has been updated with some more blog responses.) The Pope has offered an apology for his original comments. The MCB did demand a further retraction by Ratzinger in person, although the Islamic Society of Britain (ISB) had said
Brother Darqawi - no, I haven’t, but I will certainly check up on it, insha’Allah.
Brother Darqawi, I read up on the Hadith of Kab ibn al-Ashraf. However, I believe that was a different situation. He did not just insult the Prophet (peace be upon him), but actively conspired to create a revolt against the Prophet (peace be upon him), in violating of the peace treaty between the Muslims and the Jews. That constituted an act of war, therefore necessitating that the Muslims take action against him – hence the Prophet’s permission to Muhammad ibn Maslamah and others of the Sahaabah to let them deal with Kab.
As far as I know, the Pope did not call on Christians to actively fight against the Muslims, which means that this is a different situation entirely.
And Allah knows best.
Furthermore, if I am wrong (and if I am, may Allah forgive me for my error), and the death penalty is indeed required of those who insult the Prophet (peace be upon him), then is not the ruling also that the Hudood laws can only be implemented in a Muslim country? And since there is no real Islamic State, or Khalifah, and it’s well-known that the majority of the so-called Muslim countries are NOT ruled properly according to Shari’ah, not to mention that the Pope doesn’t live in a Muslim country/Islamic State, then Muslims can’t really call for his death, can they? He’s practically a ruler in his own right (the Vatican is, after all, considered an independent state within Italy), and as such we don’t have the right to demand his life according to Shari’ah.
Yes, your right it is a Hadd from the Hudud that must be applied in the muslim lands. as for your take on the hadith of Kab ibn Al Ashraf, then know that there are many more narrations like it that do not imply stirring up revolt, such as the narration of the man who killed his kafirah slave girl who insulted the Prophet of Allah sallallahu alayhi was sallam. Again, you cant go wrong with reading Qadi Iyads ash Shifa.
Brother Darqawi - all right, then… may Allah forgive me for my error, and guide us all to the truth, ameen!
Darqawi, so are you saying that Islam does in fact enforce its opinion through violence? That is certainly not the spirit of la ikraha fil-deen which being a principle laid out in the Qur’an is binding. I think you are saying the same thing that Benedict 16th was saying. What of the shari’i principle of chosing the lesser evil? Do you do dawah by telling people why Islam’s principles of monotheism, universalism (anti-racism), and moral lifestyle (against fornication, alcoholism) etc., make sense or do you go out and issue threats which will only perpetuate the cycle of threats and violence?
Your opinion is certainly a very tiny minority opinion among the Muslims. If your pseudonym is what I think it is, I do not think many of us are really on your plain of thought. How about our hadd right of vengeance for the murder of our friend Mustafa Akkad in Amman?
lol, qawukzi, the name i use is Darqawi, not Zarqawi. Darqawi is a nisbah to the Tariqah ash Shadhiliyah-via Moulay al Arabi al Darqawi. Zarqawi is a wahhabi ignoramus.
If you choose to reject the position held by Ijma of all of the four Madhhabs then thats on you.
Do I issue threats? of course not. The Shari ruling is there to be implememted in the muslims lands when the Shariah is in force by those rightful Shari leaders. We affirm that and shouldnt water this down because of some pressure in the west. Have you read the Shifa of Qadi Iyad and do you even know who he is and what his rank is among the scholars of the Din?
[...] The Muslim street is fulminating with rage in response to a recent speech by Pope Benedict, in which the Pope quoted an early Christian emperor who had described Islam’s teachings as “evil and inhuman”. [...]