I wonder if this meeting of Arab TV and movie producers condemning terrorism and racism will be a condemnation of their own racism and terrorism? If so, then that would be a good step to admitting a problem
For all of America’s flaws, one has to admit that there is a sense of introspection that leads to the improvement in such things as race relations. Because Americans have a culture of questioning themselves, this generally leads to corrections in oppression.
A Black man was elected Governor of a state that is only 10% black, and two other minorities seriously competed for Senate seats. (Ironically, Harold Ford did not lose because of race, but because he was trying to be too much of a redneck)
The number of black elected officials in the US has grown every single year since 1970 , according to the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies
After Rosa Park’s death, The Religious Policeman said this:
Now I am not saying for one moment that other groups are free from racism. It’s just that generally, they have a more self-critical and self-questioning attitude, and therefore do something about it. The recent death of Rosa Parks in the USA reminded us of how an entire country looked in on itself and did something about a major racism problem
Like I said, if this conference can spark such a process in the Muslim World then that would be an excellent start to actually solving problems instead of pretending they don’t exist.
*NOTE: For those that don’t get it, the title of this post was written in pretentious-speech.
Filed under: Race, The Culture of Denial and Pretense
Okay Mr. Reality Broker, get REAL! America is still very much a racist country. Everything about America is racial, there is no way around it. Just because of appearances and the fact that people no longer openingly commit acts of racism does not mean a thing. Racism is real, it’s roots are from shaytaan, and it is far from gone in America. Now they just get black people to do all their dirty work (Colin Powell and Condi), and paint it as upward mobility.
I’m not saying that racism does not exist in America, but it is not socially acceptable (yes, socially acceptable) to be racist as it is in Muslim World.
America - while no racial paradise - is decades, perhaps even a century, ahead of the Muslim world on race relations
Ok, I get what you are saying but still not sure if I agree. Maybe I am in denial.
I never saw such racism until I became Muslim.
Here in the US, even the racism that exists now, there are anti-racist organizations that are still trying to fight it and other injustices. Can we say that about the Muslim world? No, because too many of us don’t believe that racism even exists in the Muslim world.
My sister gets more respect as a black woman here in the US than she would any day in the Muslim World where she would be endlessly derided for being black
Denial, unfortunately, is a culture in the Muslim world
You might wanna change your moniker, akhiy!! People seem to give you a hard time on being a “reality broker”. Personally, I think it’s a neat one.
As for your post - your sentiments are not foreign to myself or to my colleagues. We have sat and discussed the above with repeated frequency. It’s good that you mention the positive before the negative. By this I mean, hey, “let’s accentuate something good before we lay out facts that all of us know - RACISM’s still alive”. No one here would argue that racism is dead. Instead, as far as racism in the Blackamerican context goes, it is not longer a de jure issue for Blacks and that’s significant. That it is still de facto, no one with sound mind would argue. But I think we must move towards raising up what positive qualities we see happening. I see far too many Blacks getting quagmired in reminding us that racism’s still persistent. The real question at the table, in my opinion, is what are we going to do inspite of it? This was the attitude of our great ancestors that came before us. DuBois knew of a strain of racism far more vicious than almost any of us could ever pretend to know, and yet, he looked for the good that the Black community was producing. I feel there’s a tremendous wisdom in that approach.
I’m just getting over the marathon post from the other day. But I see both points of view. However, in America, capitalism drives policy at the end of the day. When looking at all of the reasons why overt racism is frowned upon in the U.S., the biggest reason is money. Large corporations cannot afford to endorse racism or even tolerate it because of the negative affect this would have on the bottom line. I’ve been in the corporate world for awhile now and not only are public entities bound to title VII of the Civil Rights act, but they have to publish material promoting civil tolerance and equal rights under the law because in the end, it is the fiscal thing to do. Even though individuals can be as racist as they want on the inside, enough progress has been made through the struggles over the last century to provide a LEGAL basis for equal treatment under the law. Also, there are avenues available to those who have been subjected to institutional (not individual) racism, who seek some type of retribution i.e., EEOC, civil suits, etc.
Does this mean there is not racism in America? Of course not. America was founded on racism and the oppresion of others. However, whether token overtures or not, at least America’s overall attitude in the PUBLIC sector has been forward moving. Can the same be said for Saudi or Yemen or UAE or Syria or any number of Muslim countries where there is not even any punitive action that can be taken against any institution that openly abuses and discriminates against certain races?
One additional point is that one should not conflate the nature of racism vis-a-vie discrimination to the nature of race relations in Arab nations or the Middle-East in general. Their history with racial-based discrimination is very much different than ours. Just a side note.
We can also replace the issue of race with the issue of ‘gender’ relations or racism with ’sexism’ and compare and contrast the trend between the U.S. and the Muslim world. I bet (verily, I know betting is haram) that the results would be even more disparate between the two than the issue of race.
Adding to what TheSaveRashadProject stated, the intersection of race, class and gender can also make a lot of difference. It is this interesection that determines how we view others and how we view ourselves.
I agree with Tariq. I was trying to think if I’d ever been called nigger before as a child, I dont ever recall it. But I do recall living in Saudi as a child and being called Abd by other kids. That being said, the Muslims were very generous to our family so its a complicated issue.
In the West, overt racism is just not acceptable, to a fault really, because it can go overboard, as in the case of the girl arrested in Britain for making racist remarks.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/manchester/6047514.stm
Anyway, I don’t think the problems are limited to the Muslim world. In much of the world its perfectly acceptable to speak of your disgust for different ethinic groups or lower classes (eg. Roma in Europe). I think in America we are just much more sensitive to it. When you are constantly lectured on how egalitarian Islam is, its shocking to see its not the case in Muslim countries.
Salam Rashad, you know it always blew my mind that while some were writing the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights and Constitution, that millions of Africans languished in slavery. But, I also do not think America was founded on racism, if you meant it was founded to perpetuate it; I think it was founded despite it. Thus, the irony of those documents and slavery existing at the same time was not lost on people even then. I believe the origins of the anti-slavery movement was born out of this realization; it just took generations for enough people to become convinced that it was evil, and then another generation and alot of blood to stamp it out officially. But, the founding of America led directly to putting an end to legal slavery in a way that the Islamic World never did.
DE-NILE is a river in Egypt…Egypt is A Muslim country…
As Rashad alludes to above, sisters, particularly AA sisters have been traumatized in these bad marriages. They came into the marriage a good enthusiastic sister and left it traumatized and ruined possibly for life
wow talk about resentment…I’ve known many dark skinned and totally african looking arabs in arabia and they are treared all right in middle east…
…perhaps you should consider using “arab world” or “middle east” instead of “muslim world”. You mentioned “denial is a culture” in “muslim world”…(I haven’t read everything on your blog so don’t jump me on this), but maybe we should talk about the culture of denial in our own backyard…where anyone who is born here in west or happens to be a convert to islam feels somehow more privliged and more superior due to being endowed with culture of western civilization. And they seem to totally deny it…
Nuqtah, you are joking right?
OmarG:
I didn’t mean that America was founded on racism for the sake of racism.
“Verily, we will establish a land of Racism!”
lol
I just meant that economically, the life-blood of the union was free labor that eventually came to be exclusively race-based. And the preservation of that cash-cow is (primarily) what drove racial oppression in the antebellum, Jim Crow and Reconstruction eras. Not to mention a waning ideal of the preservation of WASP identity and superiority. The more and more diverse America became, the more this misguided ideal became politically incorrect and economically detrimental. However, I don’t want to give the impression that covert racism in the U.S. has abaded without intense struggle and many sacrifices. But the point is, things in America gradually had to change no matter how reluctant some were and are.
The point above of traumatized sisters hit home with me because I am one them. I started out my marriage very young energetic and willing to please my husband in every way and what did I get in return but dogged out and humiliated for my efforts by my husband. It was like I was married to two different brothers. Like Dr Jeckell and Mr Hyde. Now that I am divorced I don’t know if I can trust another man because of what I have been through because brothers portray themselves one way but they are the exact opposite of that when they come home.
On racism, I thought about it and I also did not experience racism until after becoming Muslim and now I see it all the time.
Nuqtah, has a point. i see this all the time. Maybe it’s a survival mechnism, because lot’s of westertn Muslims that come to the Muslim world, like to flip out if everythig is not like they are use to. Not to mention you got a lot of Muhaajiroon threatening people with calling the American Embassy on them and making a big stink out of their blue passports. Oh and they are quick to run back every summer to play Shaykh to the unsuspecting converts.
I personally have never encountered in your face racism, in Saudi or America. I mean I never been called the N-Word or Abd. I may have benefited from a racist system, as I’m sure I have probably been token minority (woman and AA). I know racism exist in every society, and I may have been an indirect victim of it through the masses, but never direct. Even at many of the masajid and Islamic Centers in America, I was always around loud ignorant acting AA sisters who would be the first to scream racism, when in fact I was embarrassed to be seen with them because they would behave exactly like how we are stereotyped!
Sister Asmaa,
I am sorry for the pain that you have been through and I pray that Allah (swt) corrects your affairs and gives you relief and provides you with a better husband than the pitiful joker you were married to. I am a divorced sister as well and my marriage started and ended just like yours but Alhamdulillah I am happier now than I’ve been in a long time. You will be fine Insha Allah.
Umm Adam, I suggest you speak to some of the Bengalis and Africans and ask them if Saudis are racist. I never saw such racism as in Saudi. You probably don’t see it because your husband is white
Umm Adam, No offense sister
It also might be because she is American. I’ve heard very often if people dont know you are American you really see what they think of Black/Brown people, you get treated completely different once its known you are American
I’m Pakistani and I’ve felt discrimination from both white and black people but I’d have to say mostly from blacks, even moreso by AA sisters!
For some reason, AA sisters act coldly towards me. They don’t even give salaams and when they do they act like they’re returning salaams because they have to.
Just recently I attended a Baby Shower for an AA sister. Everyone there was AA except me and I never felt so ignored in my life. I didn’t know anyone there except the sister who the baby shower was for but I never felt welcomed by any of the other sisters. I would try talking to the sisters next to me and they barely even acknowledged I was there.
WackyPaki have you ever been in a gathering with mostly Pakistanis and they speak in urdu not caring that the one American doesn’t understand? Look at it from both sides
Just because Pakistani or whoever does it doesnt make it right. AA women can be just as cliquish as any other. You cant talk about racism and not admit that everyone has the tendency to be exclusive.
I agree Um Abdullah but I don’t like it when some people act like AAs are the ones dishing out all the racism and they are innocent
No offense taken Farooq. Don’t get me wrong. I don’t AIDS, but I know it kills. I have seen the racism both in Saudi and in America, I just have never had it happen directly to me. In Saudi it is more nationalism than racism. Trust be, an AA gets treated 100x better than a Muslim from a Third World Country.
WakiPaki, I believe you. I have been around AA sisters that for some reason act so funcky around non AA sisters. I was gonna say, maybe it was the whole bidah baby shower thing, but since they were there I guess it was more to it than that. Someone once told me that AA’s can’t be racist, well I wonder what they call it?
Umm Adam,
Actually, in the past, I would have never attended a baby shower because of the whole bidah thing but I’ve let go of some of the extreme views that I once held. Plus, I thought it would be a nice way of meeting some sisters since I moved to the area 2 years ago but have only made a friend or two.
The sad part is that I spoke to the hostess a few times on the phone and even asked if she needed me to bring anything but once I got there the sister never even introduced herself to me or thanked me for bringing anything. It wasn’t until I was leaving the party that I learned who she was and that’s only because someone called her by her name.
That was very unislamic, WakiPaki. I don’t know what to say. Did you get up, walk around and give salaams?
Sister Umm Adam,
The whole time I was at the party I felt very uncomfortable and could not wait to leave. I was praying that my kids would start acting up so that I would have an excuse to leave. LOL
I’m not sure what the problem is but I’ve come across MANY AA sisters that seem to have a chip on their shoulder. Of course, not all are like that though. I was telling a white sister about my experience at the baby shower and she happens to know the sisters who were at the party and she said she felt the same way the first time she attended the masjid that they go to and she was not surprised at all by my experience.
But I’ve come across other sisters, white and Arab, that have felt the same coldness from AA sisters and I’m not sure where the animosity stems from…
It seems though that AA brothers don’t have the same chip on their shoulders as the AA sisters do.
Well, I do think that its sort of a defense mechanism. Because I’ve noticed this amongst non-muslim AA women too . It may be a reaction to them being ignored by non-AA women and they just do the same thing. I know I have been ignored so many times at masjids with immigrants/or their children only, but my non-AA friends say the same thing. So maybe its just how women are, they just don’t like being friendly to women they dont know.
WakiPaki and Umm Abdullah, it is a jahil woman thang! Muslim women have no business treating another sister in Islam like that. One of the things I miss most about the American Muslim scene, is our diversity. I think that is a reason I love making Umrah, so that I can feel Islam really does unite the Muslimeen.
Umm Adam,
You are exactly right. Never in my life did I think that I would feel so uncomfortable around a group of my own Muslim sisters.
I attended a sister’s halaqa two weeks ago which had a mix of sisters of all ethnicities and it was beautiful. Everyone got along well and all of us had a good time. It was my first time attending but everybody knew each other but I still felt welcomed. This is the kind of sisterly love that one should expect.
Umm Adam
I get the distinct impression that outside of the Anglo-Western (i.e ‘pure’ european) construction of who is ‘black’, YOU are not really a ‘black’ person as understood by the rest of planet earth eg Latin America, Arab lands Africa, Southern Europe etc etc. In the US, UK, Australia for instance you might be black, but by your own admission in your blog you were told you’re NOT black (by a Saudi in Saudi) you are Wheat i.e. a light complexioned person. Most AAs are ‘undeniably black’ anywhere on planet earth but a significant minority are ‘white’ whether we like it or not. Non-(undeniable) ‘blackness’ has many benefits,even in the Anglo-Saxon world esp. as a woman, (which you have admitted in previous blogs to benefiting from i.e. arabs wanting to marry and associate with you etc etc)- one just has to cash in on them. I have both light and dark skinned black family members and within the Us/Uk context we are no different, but obviously our perception and thus treatment would rapidly alter in parts of the world where light skinned ‘black’ people are a separate and superior group as I mentioned in one of my last posts a few days ago. I’m not trying to deny your blackness, just adding a dose of reality. Who is ‘black’, is sometimes more about WHERE you are, rather than WHAT you are for many people.
Farooq,
I must have missed your comment earlier. I agree that Pakistanis are notorious for speaking in their own language when others are around but that’s because when they are around their own people there is a natural tendency to speak their native language.
As a matter of fact, my mom will have gatherings at her house where some sisters speak pushtu and urdu and some only speak urdu but then the sisters will start speaking in strictly pushtu and the ones that don’t understand it just sit around twiddling their thumbs. I’ve seen that happy several times and honestly I don’t think they realize they’re doing that because then I’ll see one “Auntie” translating to the “Auntie” who doesn’t understand. That just goes to show that it’s not necessarily a discriminatory thing because they do it amongst each other all the time.
At the gathering I was at, it wasn’t that large AND we were in a pretty small space AND we all spoke the same language so there was really no need to treat me like an outsider.
WakiPaki:
I’m sorry that this happened. I definitely can see this happening. I’ve heard the same reports from others before in similar situations. I do not understand why we HAVE to act this way. Maybe it was some kind of cultural backlash against perceived clique-ishness from other groups. No excuses either way. Especially since you were nice enough to except the invitation. However, I do believe that this behavior, immature as it is, is not the same as believing that a particular group is superior because of the shade of skin color.
It is accepted as fact that in certain circles in every way, blacks, or dark-skinned people are less desirable, mentally/morally inferior, and more despised than fairer skinned to white complexion people. This is something that cannot be reversed and projected onto lighter-skinned Pakistanis, Arabs, or any other ethnic group by darker-skinned people because this is an attitude that is centuries deep and culturally wide-spread.
I do not believe that two wrongs make a right though. It is just as wrong to ostracize an Arab or Pakistani brother/sister as it is to feel superior because of our color. It is obvious that we have lots of issues to confront.
But Al-hamdulillaah…Verily, the Reality Broker has benefitted us with his noble blog to strike a blow to this calamity!!
TSRP said: “But Al-hamdulillaah…Verily, the Reality Broker has benefitted us with his noble blog to strike a blow to this calamity!! ”
Takbeer!
I just realized that I misspelled your name…
(oops)
Sorry WackyPaki
You’re not the only one who did it….I was actually thinking about changing it to WakiPaki! LOL
it seems that people are adamant about putting all the blame on the shoulders of arabs and pakistanis (and this is partially true)…I say this because I’ve experienced more than my share of racism and discrimination from arabs and yes im a pakistani…However for some reason as umm adam mentioned the “blue passports” makes some people act as if they are special and more priveldged than others.
I’ll just cite a few examples of incidents that actually took place:
a) My freind (a bengali) went for hajj a long time ago. He narrated that him and his family were waiting in this huge line at this McD’s in order to get some one to eat. There was a “white” (caucasian couple) in the line way behind them and the people at the counter went out of their way to serve them and take their orders even though they didn’t deserve it.
b) In middle east if you are caucasian you get paid more compared to your counterparts who are from the sub-continent (my dad was discriminated agains this way!)
c) I still clearly remember where I used to live there were a couple of caucasian “revert” families. I noticed a couple of things about them. Firstly the hardly ever attended the local masjid as if they were way above it. Second of all they had their own clique which they stuck too. They never mingled with arabs or Pakistanis…they never talked to any arab or pakistanis, they never went to any multi cultural events. But what they did was that they hung out together, had their days out together, took their children to swiming together, and only seemed to mingle with each other. I guess you being white is all that makes the difference.
As for AA card then seriously people totally misuse that. Many AA have a tendency to act as if they are being discriminated against when it is clearly them who are in wrong. And to generalize that AA aren’t treated as good is a gross generalization. I know a couple of AA brothers and I don’t treat them different from others.
Let’s get one thing straight; it doesn’t matter you are white, black, arab, asian, convert or born muslim; YOU DO NOT OWN THIS “DEEN”.
why is it wrong when white people do something together or choose to accompany, befriend, or marry one another, yet when everyone else does it it is posted in the news as a culture event that “strengthens cultural ties and bolsters diversity”
I don’t know, its just a question.
And yes even though racism exists in the Muslim community, many things are indicted as racism when in fact they aren’t. Some things are more cultural mis-understandings or blatant American rudeness, like constantly commenting on Muslim sisters from various ethnic backgrounds that one would like to marry by saying “Yeh, I’d like to get a piece of that.” And then when you are rebuked for such a stupid statement the people obviously are racists because they don’t want you to marry their daughters. Hmm, I wonder why?
The fact of the matter is is that racism, classism, and all these other ism’s are realties that we cannot run from.
The Prophet said as recorded in Sahih Muslim (1550): “There are Four things in my Ummah from the affairs of ignorance that they will not leave off: Pride in ancestry, defamation of other’s lineage, believing astronomy affects the weather, and wailing over the dead.”
Ibn Arabi commented on this hadith saying “these attitudes stem from a person never wanting to see anyone else as complete/whole, because of the personal deficiencies he himself has…and there is no lineage that cannot be contested except that of al-Mustafa, May God shed his grace upon him.”
Bro. Hood you make a good observation. Sometimes we can go overboard with every is racism when its just personal preferece. People like to socialize amongst htose like themselves, its natural and there is nothing wrong with that. I think the problem is that someone noted on another blog, one dont invite others and say its a Muslim event and then have them feel left out, just say its for such and such culture. And Americans convert whatever should not get offended at every little thing. Honestly we overlook so much of what we do and jump on every little thing we think is an afront to us.
Londoner, I had to reread your post a few times, to see if I understood you correctly. I think I finally do. I am undeniably AA and undeniably black in America. However, in other parts of the world, people take the word ‘black’ literally. I personally don’t know anybody who is actually the color black. Wheat is a common color among AA…it’s not speal at all. Light enough to make non blacks comfortable around you and too dark to be considered a ‘wanna be’. I guess kinda of the best of both worlds.
Honestly, I would like to think it is my sunny disposition that wins people over. I am a people person, friendly, likable. Some people have bad personalities. It’s not always about race. Some people just turn people off.
Umm Adam:
You’ve never met a person that one would call “blue-black”? The person is the same color as his/her hair
Tariq, are Alek Wek and Wesley Snipes good examples of “blue-black”?
…the pro golfer Vijay Singh comes to mind too….
Tariq, I told my dh about this thread. He says that because I am a big city girl (Chicago), i haven’t seen it all. He said in the South, I’m more likely to see the ’shoe polish’ black that you speak of (blue black). I’m from the South Side of Chicago at that. The further West you go, it seems the darker they get. As a matter of fact the Westside of Chicago seems like a totally different city. It’s ghetto-country.
I read somewhere that Wesley Snipes had that DNA Genealogy stuff done and that he is the real thing. A pure African…not a mutt like most AA’s.
salaam,
Shama Noor: “blue-black” would be darker than Wesley Snipes, though he’s close.
[...] Over the past year there have been a number of discussions on race in the Muslim community on various blogs such as the blogs of Umm Zaid, Abu Sinan, my own blog, and now a very important discussion is going on at the blog of Tariq Nelson. [...]
There is a show on Arabic TV, I dont remember what it is called, I think it is on MBC. We watched part of it the other night. Basically it shows the lives of terrorists and those around them and how they impact others. I found it pretty interesting.
If I am right and that it was on MBC, that would be significant as that is a Saudi owned station.
Asalamu aleykum
Surely racism is a problem, maybe it’s a huge one, maybe its something you American guys are overdoing it as you come from your own context, its something you emphasize coz it’s a big deal where you are. Yes it does exist, its ugly and its nasty. Arab culture is inherently with a racist tinge, that might view different races as ugly, or less smart, and culturally inferior
its even a problem within Arabs themselves they look down upon each other, you are from tribe so and so and im from tribe so and so,, till this very day there are tribes that wont marry from other tribes coz they see them as lower, in other words complaining too much only makes you seem victimising yourself.
There is an Arabic expression that says “anace al Arab” literally translating as, the People are the Arabs, meaning the best people are the Arabs
Arabs in general don’t find darker skin attractive (marriage or whatever) yet away from any other context doesn’t mean they look down upon a darker person,
In the end little racism is just bad adab unless it becomes more traumatic then it becomes oppression,
Either ways racism is of jahiliya yet still there are many hadeeth that talk about the virtues of Arabs and the people of Yemen.
after all Allah has chose Al Imran and Al- Ibraheem over the world
and Allah chose banu Kinana and from Banu Kinana Banu Qurayish and from Banu Qurayish banu Hashim, and from Banu Hashim the best of creation Muhammad salla Allah alayhi wa salam.
Why is it that these issues race-related articles raise more discussion than anything else that I have posted on my blog… oh besides polemic discussion on tafsir? Except for that one exception… race is a real hot button.