No Daycare. No hometraining
It is stories like the one below that make people keep their children at home while not teaching them anything there either. Then they bring the child to school at five - knowing nothing at all - and afraid of their own shadow expecting the teachers to perform a miracle.
I really think that children need to learn how to socialize with other children and with adults other than their parents so that they develop normal skills. On the other hand, children also need to have some “home training” as well…Wonder if they took into account a lack of spanking in these times with children?
A much-anticipated report from the largest and longest-running study of American child care has found that keeping a preschooler in a day care center for a year or more increased the likelihood that the child would become disruptive in class — and that the effect persisted through the sixth grade.
The effect was slight, and well within the normal range for healthy children, the researchers found. And as expected, parents’ guidance and their genes had by far the strongest influence on how children behavedOn the positive side, they also found that time spent in high-quality day care centers was correlated with higher vocabulary scores through elementary school.
The research, being reported today as part of the federally financed Study of Early Child Care and Youth Development, tracked more than 1,300 children in various arrangements, including staying home with a parent; being cared for by a nanny or a relative; or attending a large day care center. Once the subjects reached school, the study used teacher ratings of each child to assess behaviors like interrupting class, teasing and bullying.
[...]
The debate reached a high pitch in the late 1980s, during the so-called day care wars, when social scientists questioned whether it was better for mothers to work or stay home. Day care workers and their clients, mostly working parents, argued that it was the quality of the care that mattered, not the setting. But the new report affirms similar results from several smaller studies in the past decade suggesting that setting does matter.
“This study makes it clear that it is not just quality that matters,” said Jay Belsky, one of the study’s principal authors, who helped set off the debate in 1986 with a paper suggesting that nonparental child care could cause developmental problems. Dr. Belsky was then at Pennsylvania State University and has since moved to the University of London.
That the troublesome behaviors lasted through at least sixth grade, he said, should raise a broader question: “So what happens in classrooms, schools, playgrounds and communities when more and more children, at younger and younger ages, spend more and more time in centers, many that are indisputably of limited quality?”
Others experts were quick to question the results. The researchers could not randomly assign children to one kind of care or another; parents chose the kind of care that suited them. That meant there was no control group, so determining cause and effect was not possible. And some said that measures of day care quality left out important things.
[...]
The study, a $200 million project financed by the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, recruited families in 10 cities from hospitals, after mothers gave birth. The researchers regularly contacted the mothers to find out where their children were being cared for, and visited those caregivers to see how attentive and how skilled they were with the youngsters.
In 2001, the authors reported that children who spent most of their day in care not provided by a parent were more likely to be disruptive in kindergarten. But this effect soon vanished for all but those children who spent a significant amount of time in day care centers.
Every year spent in such centers for at least 10 hours per week was associated with a 1 percent higher score on a standardized assessment of problem behaviors completed by teachers, said Dr. Margaret Burchinal, a co-author of the study and a psychologist at the University of North Carolina.
The Children’s Defense Fund estimates that 2.3 million American children under age 5 are in day care centers, many starting as toddlers and continuing until they enter kindergarten. Some 4.8 million are cared for by a relative or a nanny, and 3.3 million are at home with their parents.
The study was not designed to explain why time in day care could lead to more disruptive behavior later on. The authors and other experts argue that preschool peer groups probably influence children in different ways from one-on-one attention. In large groups of youngsters, disruption can be as contagious as silliness, studies have found, while children can be calmed by just the sight of their own mother.
“What the findings tell me is that we need to pay as much attention to children’s social and emotional development as we do to their cognitive, academic development, especially when they are together in groups,” said Ellen Galinsky, president of the Families and Work Institute, a nonprofit research group.
Loudell Robb, program director of the Rosemount Center in Washington, which cares for 147 children ages 5 and under at its main center and in homes, said she was not surprised that some children might have trouble making the transition from day care to school.
“At least our philosophy here is that children are given choices, to work alone or in a group, to move around,” Ms. Robb said. “By first or second grade, they’re expected to sit still for long periods, to form lines, not to talk to friends when they want to; their time is far more teacher-directed.”
And as parents in the thick of it know all too well, the stress of juggling chores, work and young children does not help. “It’s not an easy ride,” Ms. Robb said, “and you can see that here at drop-off time and in the evening when kids are picked up.”
The continuing research project began in 1991. The investigators have financing to follow the same children into high school, and are proposing to follow some into their 20s.
UPDATE: The Commercial Below was voted Best in Europe. Instead of disciplining children, they see the answer in not having them at all
Filed under: Children's Issues
I’ve noticed that here in KSA, as well. I put my oldest daughter in rowdah (preschool) as soon as she turned 3. I did it so that she would speak arabic like a native. Now she is in 2nd grade, the best student in her class, and the other children that do well are the one’s that went to preschool. The one’s that didn’t do not behave as wel nor do they do as good in school. I’m not saying put your kids in preschool, but at least prepare them for school if you decide to send them.
As salaamu ‘alaykum Tariq,
Does your last sentence suggest that it is lack of spanking which makes children less well behaved? This is ridiculous. I don’t say corporal punishment can never be appropriate, but I do say that when it is used, it is almost never appropriate. If you see that the parent spanking their child is upset and doing it out of anger, for example, which they almost always are, you know that it is not being used appropriately.
I ask people to really reflect on the hadith of Anas. The Prophet (saw) who was the best at raising children, not only NEVER hit or spanked children, he didn’t even YELL at them, he didn’t even ask them “Why did you do that?!” Amazing. That’s parenting. But most of us are just too tired from everything else we have to do and have too much ego so we constantly feel like we are in a battle with our children and we have to “show them who’s the boss.” There is nothing more pathetic than a bully who has to show weak and vulnerable people that he can control them in order to make him or herself feel better and this is true whether it is a husband with his wife or a parent with their children. And May Allaah (swt) forgive me for all the mistakes I have made with my children.
Allaah knows best.
And by the way, while I have seen children who are poorly behaved because they don’t have what you refer to as “home training” as a person who has worked with a lot of Muslim youth and who works professionally with abused and neglected children, I have seen countless poorly behaved children whose parents use corporal punishment and some of the worst behaved are those who are physically abused. To be clear, I know no one was advocating physical abuse, but as I mentioned above when many parents use spanking inappropriately it is basically a low level form of physical abuse.
May Allaah (swt) have mercy on our little ones, and may He correct the behavior of us older ones, myself first.
Allaah knows best.
wa alaykum as-salaam
Abu Noor,
You are talking about something totally different from what I am talking about. I am not saying to abuse the children or spank them purely out of anger. It is a way of teaching them. Most parents hate to do it, it is pretty rare and usually a last resort What I was referring to above is the complete banning of spanking/corporal punishment as a symptom of the increase in bad behavior and lack of respect for elders in children nowadays. Some children do need it (not abuse) at times. We are talking about using it appropriately here. Many children - especially girls - will not need it, but others do.
So I’m not saying to go “hmm, my child hasn’t had a spanking so I’d better give him one just to lay down the law”
On the other hand, there must be discipline or the child will end up hurting themselves
By the way “home training” is what we call it in the South. Old men and women would say about children with no manners that they have no “hometraining” So I wasn’t trying to be disparaging.
Salaams,
Working with abused and negledted children is a very admirable thing that you’re doing, Abu Noor and I think that we can all appreciate those that decide that helping children is a very important priority. Especially considering the direction that many kids are headed these days.
I can’t speak from a professional perspective - only as a parent (and as the child of my parents) and I don’t know if I agree with presenting that particular hadeeth as a complete and total example of child-rearing. I mean, that hadeeth has to be looked at considering who we’re talking about (The Prophet) and his children. It has to be compared and contrast with others. For example, the Prophet (peace be upon him) instructed that children be spanked for neglecting salat at a certain age. Then he must have known that there would be circumstances that would require more than just ‘time-out’ - if not for his own children, then ours. I think it is a little unfair (and unrealistic) to expect us to willfully refrain from spanking or raising our voices when as every parent knows, sometimes you have to in certain situations. Maybe the Prophet’s children were always excellent and well mannered and never had to be spanked or punished. But as far as the rest of us and our children, can we say the same?
Sometimes, the children DO need a reminder of who exactly IS the boss and understand which side their bread is buttered on. Every parent can relate to this. My kids test their limits because that’s what they’re gonna do - ’till you remind them that yeah, daddy’s your ‘friend’ but he’s also - DADDY. As an adolescent, I know I tried to push the limits with my father. The older I got, the taller I got, and the more peach fuzz I grew, I KNEW I was a man - until he presented me with a set of boxing gloves and told me that if I thought I was a man and could get up in his face, he was going to treat me like any other ‘man’ that got up in his face. I respectfully declined and returned to my proper place. That’s real parenting because this stuff is real life and you cant learn parenting from books of hadeeth because everyone will live in unique circumstances and sometimes the square peg doesn’t fit the round hole.
Abu Noor al Irlandee
Most black children don’t have ‘parents’, they have ‘parent’, singular, or ‘parent’ in absentia.
Perhaps the single black mothers, at some psychological level, are having a misguided ‘payback time’ against their black sons stemmed by the black males that gave them the child and then have either abandoned and/or abused them. The vicious cycle continues with no end in sight. Violence begets violence, abuse begets abuse
I think the issue is discipline and every child needs different type of discipline. One of my kids, time out is all it takes, he hates it. But the other one will push the limits until Daddy comes home and he knows things are serious.
Speaking of fathers I wonder if this study had any mention of fathers. Fathers are integral to insuring our kids grow up well behaved and productive and yet we rarely hear how important they are. Its odd they would spend $200 mill and not investigate what affect fathers have on the children.
Bro. Tariq are you saying kids should not stay at home with moms. Or that there needs to be an effort to get them out amongst other people. Because I don’t see how going to daycare teaches a child socialization, I mean what is a 2 yo going to learn from another 2yo. I have worked at one of more expensive ones and you would be surprised how much Barney is watched all day. I really don’t see what they have that cant be found at home.
There is a difference between discipline and abuse. Spanking your child for touching the stove or wrongly crossing the street is logical stuff. What is happening here is parents going all-out Jerry Springer on their kids, replete with verbal assaults and chaos. This type of thing has been studied, and when kids are treated this way their brains develop differently — I believe the “amygdala” overdevelops causing too much anxiety and leaving too little room for proper intellectual development.
I come from a family where crazy violence went on and I’ve seen this in my pig-ingorant cousins, many of whom are in jail
Tariq,
When you say “complete banning of spanking” what exactly are you talking about?
Again, as someone who is a lawyer in the child protection system I know for a fact that spanking is neither illegal and as a human being I know that spanking and many other things in fact go on all the time…so spanking neither has been banned nor is there a general lack of spanking going on.
I appreciate the other comments but I made absolutely clear in my first comment that spanking is neither haram nor always wrong and that I know abuse is different from spanking. Dennis’ comment is very appropriate. And SaveRashadProject, I disagree 100 percent. I do think one can and should learn parenting from hadith books. Anas was not the Prophet’s child, but he was a child who spent time around and in the service of the Prophet, and no he was not perfect, he was a human child. He was of course a companion of the Prophet (saw) and therefore one of the best of humanity but that was because he was nurtured by the Prophet the way he was. To look at the hadith and think oh, kids back then must have been better than our kids is a cop out.
To be absolutely clear, I understand what it is to be a parent (I have three kids of my own) and I am not saying I live up to my understanding of what a good parent is. I also could be wrong, so I say again Allaah knows best. But I do strongly urge people to reflect on what they do and why they do it, not reflexively try to justify it. I think if people had a recording of what they look like when they are “disciplining” their kids they would do it a lot differently. Or at least I hope they would.
As salaam alaikum.
Jazakallahu khairn for the thoughtful post. I have four children that have collectively worn me down to the knub of a man that I am now.
You might remember me. Canadian Muslim writer, come by insha’Allah if you have some time to read or are looking for some dawah ideas.
Ma’as salaama,
nuh ibn
Abu Noor,
I was not implying that the traditions are of no value. Like I said, they, like any other references we have, have to be applied with some intelligence - not just “I’ll be a successful parent if I just copy what I read in Bukhari”
To imply otherwise would mean that any hafidh of hadeeth (even an 11 year old) who memorized and could explain in detail the hadeeth, its authenticity, its chain, its narrators, the knowledge of the rijal - would qualify him as a good parent. I know you do not mean that so don’t assume I mean throw out any reference to parenting in the books of hadeeth carte blanch. There is no substitute for real world experience and a lot of the brothers and sisters here have gone through knowing the ayat, hadeeth, rulings etc on a conceptual level, yet as life’s circumstances changed and things gradually got more complicated, the answers were not as simple nor as literal as we originally thought them to be. Including marriage and parenting. Many of us got married following the letter of the ahadeeth literally - thinking religion to be some sort of exact formula
“If I do this + that = result”
Then when the result is different than what we read from the books, we realize that life is just not that black and white. Masha Allah, sounds like you’re doing good work in your field. I was just expressing my point of view. Like you said Allah knows best.
By the way Tariq, I am familiar with the phrase hometraining , I just put quotes aroudn it because I was quoting you.
I feel you Rashad…I’m sorry if you felt I was misconstruing your comments. I would just say I sometimes find it a little weird when brothers I love like you or Tariq or Umar Lee speak like you’re giving us some reality check from the “real world” — where do you think we live? Allaah alone knows best, we may have experienced as much of the world as you have, or maybe not.
Just to be clear also,
I just thought about a few speeches and khutbahs I have heard from young Imams and khateebs who would discuss the topic of marriage or raising children or something like that - yet they were single and childless. They would quote the ayat or hadeeth and make a few general comments but had no experience to suppliment the book ‘ilm and hifdh with. It was just empty quoting. I find it to be insulting to be in the jama’ah listening to a guy who doesn’t have kids or who is not married, tell me how to treat my wife and raise my kids for no other reason other than he studied the religion formally. As Muslims we need the guidance of Qur’an and the example of the Prophet (peace be upon him) but we also need to use the tools that we’re blessed with - cognizance, intelligence, observation, trial and error. If you read and driver’s ed. book from cover to cover and answer all the questions correctly, you still do not get your license until you prove that you can actually operate a motor vehicle - which comes from real world experience and practice.
We all are in this together Abu Noor. As Muslims, parents, spouses, etc. I think we can all learn from each other. Being a parent is definitely a learning process for me. We all love our children and its a touchy subject no doubt. People have high emotions when it comes to kids. We’ve probably all heard,
“Don’t try to tell me how to raise my kids!!”
Abu Noor
By “Complete Banning of Spanking” I mean that many school systems have banned corporal punishment
There are a lot of brothers that act like we don’t live in the “real world” which is why what Tariq, Umar Lee and Rashad write resonates so strongly
“Perhaps the single black mothers, at some psychological level, are having a misguided ‘payback time’ against their black sons stemmed by the black males that gave them the child ”
What!?
O-Kay… Perhaps not…that’s some far fetched reasoning that overlooks the social and cultural realities that shaped corporeal punishment and child discipline in the Black community. Doing some freudian psycho-analysis for an entire community is kind of off based.
SIGH - I don’t know where to dive in on this on. I’ve been assaulted by a Muslim child, inside the masjid (for those who attend PGMA, remember during Ramadan, well that was me who assaulted, if that brother didn’t pull me of that boy I’d be sitting in a prison), because I told him (and two other boys) to come out of the bathroom. They had the door locked and hot *ss 9 year old Yemeni girl inside with them.
ALL children need discipline and it starts at home. The punishment should be in accordance with the child’s nature and age. Speaking as a professional - mother, 11 1/2 years, aunt, 20 years, teacher (as well as teacher’s aide/assistant) 4 years, and unfortunately neighborhood sitter, 20 years - I’ve found the majority of children will straighten up with “the look,” having something they cherish taken away, and timeout. Others must be choked slammed (just kidding perhaps). In my complex, I’m known as the “tough lady,” yet each day some strange child running up to me and/or knocking on the door - this is my proof that children LOVE discipline.
I have a soft spot for children and impatience for those who are disrespectful and out of control. There are things children will do, which I can accept. Most of the time, the parents - DEADBEAT parents - are to blame. I’ve worked in an Islamic elementary school and have seen the WORSE of children (at least they aren’t as bad as the Sunday school children *GRRRRR!).
Aboo Noor - I’m PRO-Corporal punishment, which is currently being legislated for in Kansas, and I am PRAYING HARD it passes then spread like WILDFIRE. There is a difference between discipline and abuse. What is a teacher to do when mom and dad aren’t working with him/her?
Why are these children acting out? Most children get into trouble because they are BORED (which is why I’m pro-Montessori) and sleepy. Our children are not getting enough sleep. I bet if we were take away the luxuries - cell phones, cable, television in the bedrooms, latest clothing, X-Box, PSP, our children would straighten up. They need constructive activities, including sports. There is absolutely NO reason why a child needs a cell phone. First you should know where (s)he is and with whom. Second, (s)he should not be without ADULT supervision.
Now, to address the socialization: there are too many “mommy and me” play groups for children to enter KG w/out proper social skills. What is mom/dad doing all day?!
Umm Abdullah – children learn more than we think from one another. Some of the key things – taking turns, sharing/teamwork. Expensive doesn’t necessarily equal QUALITY, and again mom and dad must take an active role in their child’s education, even at the preschool level.
My boys wear me down, but it is understood when they walk out that door they represent/reflect ME. The sad thing is I often hear how wonderful they are can’t help but think folks are talking about someone else’s children.
“The sad thing is I often hear how wonderful they are can’t help but think folks are talking about someone else’s children.” LOL!! That is so true. I always say, its better they behave outside the house then act wild like they sometime do at home.
Alhumdulilah, yes price of daycare does not indicate quality. I sure learned that first hand. I still think it must be hard for a child to be in daycare all day, I think it should be the last resort for a Mom not pushed on them like its the optimal situation.
From a personal perspective, my daughter worried me for awhile. She was not as talkative or socialable as my oldest boy. She was introverted and just what we would call “anti”. I didn’t know if being a premie somehow put her behind developmentally or what.
Then we put her in day-care/pre-school and the change in her was like day and night. She was learning at such a fast pace and her vocabulary exploded as well as her overall command of English (what could be expected of a child of course). Her personality came out. She was showing a sense of humor and was just happier overall. Now she’s just as out-going and personable as her older brother (and dear old dad). I know every situation is different but she got something that she could not get at home. Interacting with others that were different from her, learning manners, sharing ideas, competing and having to express herself verbally came from the controlled setting of that daycare. You cannot simulate that at home (in my opinion) neither in pre-school, grade school, nor high-school.
[...] to be abused in the name of privacy? There is a similar discussion on this matter at the blog of Tariq Nelson. I agree with Tariq in that I do not want to see any child abused but kids today are too [...]
This may interest some of you:
http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2007/03/martin_wolf_the.html
Umm Abdullan and BintWill, I third that! My children have never received a bad reprt from outside of the home. They are very well behaved when we are visiting others and everyone thinks they are sweet as pie. Only the people in our home (and local grocery store) are aware of their ‘other side’. Masha’Allah.
TSRP, every kid is not meant to stay home and every kid is not meant to go to school. My first daughter would probably be severely depressed if I homeschooled her, she gets bored (and eats) and announces it from the minute she wakes up, steps her foot in the door from school, and goes to bed (literally). She loves school because she is a social butterfly, like her mama. My youngest daughter is the exact opposite. She will be 5 in August, insha’Allah. I put her in the same preschool with my oldest when she was 2 1/2 (school doesn’t allow you to come till 3 but they were doing me a favor so that she could learn Arabic and because my oldest was graduating and we thought it would be easier if she first went with her sister, plus I needed a break…lol), she only went there the 2nd term and then when she was 3 I put both she and my oldest in a prvate school, so they coud be togther. She almost completed that school year, but dropped out the last quarter. Now that she is 4 she did not want to go back, but attends the preschool in my tafeedth school. 3 days is enough for her. She plays very well alone and she and I get along so much better when my other daughter is at school. Schools are my friends!
What and awful commercial. It is saying that it would have been better that child was never born. It boggles my mind that European viewers did not find it disturbing.
This anti-daycare website has an interesting section on religion and daycare, including Islam…
Yep. In our time ,my siblings and I had our share of spankings. Nobody wants to endure it, but we deserved what we got because of our actions.Although we never looked forward in getting them,my siblings and I have never seen it as a form of abuse. For some people, they have different forms of punishments for their kids( eg time outs, grounding, spanking)and there is nothing wrong with them, but I don’t want the government telling us how to raise our kids.
When I was growing up and further in the past, most of the people I knew( my family included) and my generation( the early eighties) were the “spanked” crew. Although were weren’t the most angelic children, we were not as out of control. Even generations behind mine were spanked . They were even better kids than us.
These days,some of these kids( not all) with all due respect, seem less respectful to life. Now that these anti-spanking laws are out, some of these kids know about these laws and have used it against their parents/ guardians and have caused them to serve unnecessary jail/prison time. Some psychologists say that kids will be better without spanking. I disagree.
My parents( when my dad was around) didn’t take pleasure in giving us these punishments. They only used this method of punioshment as they seen what better worked for us. They did out out of compassion as their way of not wanting us to be astray of life. We had our moments, but we , and many others like us, turned out just fine.If people feel that their methods of punishment, whatever it may be, works for their kids, that is all good, but for some kids, spanking may also work, and it should never be considered to be a form of abuse.
Abuse is the physical and intentional infliction of harm thatis inflcited on kids such like cutting , burning( noticable scaring) or emotionally/mentally/verbally-(telling your kids that you wish that they were never born kind of talk or calling them a fat cow in a constant manner)My folks never did this with me, which is I never the spankings as child abuse.