“Killing in the name of Islam is a Cancer”
Hassan Butt says below that we need to have an open dialogue and counter this wacky and blood thirsty ideology. However, Mr. Butt - although he is still Muslim - still seems to blame Islam itself for the nuttery he learned in the cult he was involved with. That is another one of the danger of these crazy movements. People who leave it often think that all of Islam is as wacky as the cult is…
Once again, another one of my main fears is that people with mental problems will hear angry - but not necessarily violent -statements (and read a few wild conspiracy theories) even in places that are not involved with the nutters, that may rile them up to take “action” into their own hands.
This is why we have to thoroughly discredit these deranged people who are defecating on Islam
PART ONE:
PART TWO:
Filed under: Convert Issues, Sloganism over Reality, The Culture of Denial and Pretense
Actually he was not blaming Islam. He actually said what opened his eyes was that the “jihadis” could not bring Islamic proofs to support terror against innocent civilians. He then said he studied the Quran and it opened his eyes. Subhanallah, it sounds like he was just a teenager sucked into a gang.
This is why extremism is wrong and it is actually unIslamic. A large percentage of those who are “hard core Salafi” extremists eventually come off their high horse and actually swing the exact opposite way. They have no grounding anywhere. One minute they’d kill someone for drinking, next month their drunks themselves.
Yeah, I just read this and now I am confused about how Hasan Butt portrayed himself. I’d never heard of him before but he seems to be well known in Britain.
http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=6992
Wow,
I think he has a lot of important things to say, but I do have a problem with him saying that Islam has a violent streak. Christianity also has a violent streak if we look at the historical actions of Christians and Christians states, the Holocaust, genocide against native Americans and the Conquistadors, , the Middle passage, South African Apartheid, Algeria, Opium Wars, the Inquisition, Crusades, and Reconquistas. Modern secularists also have a violent streak, if we take into account Stalin and the communist revolutions (10 million in Russia and 1 million in Cambodia). How many millions have died for an ideology? How does that compare to the numbers that have died over Islamic extremism? Our numbers dwarf in comparison. I’m not going to apologize for my faith or things I am not guilty of, but I will combat extremism in the name of our Faith.
I have had problems with terrorism in Islam since I first heard of it in the nineties. I said then, and continue to say that those who do such crimes in the name of Islam are the Ummah’s biggest enemies. They are the most dangerous heretics we have today. They have blasphemed against God and his teachings.
I couldn’t understand why others weren’t as outraged as I was, why weren’t the scholars looking at the bid’ah of those teachings. I knew, that the Muslim’s silence would be taken advantage of by those who want to destroy us. Unfortunatly, I was right in all of my assessment. The terrorists (useful idiots) have harmed the Muslim ummah more than any other attacks on Muslims. They have given legittimacy to those who want to destroy us. Still, after all this destruction the scholars are not declaring terrorism heresy. Why? I can’t understand.
There is a similar individual in Canada named Mubin Shaikh who sold out his brothers as they planned terrorist activities. He became an informant for the Canadian Security Intelligence Service. His spying on his fellow Muslims landed many brothers in jail with terrorism-related charges. Most disturbing is that he played along, instead of discouraging his brothers from terrorism. During all this, he was publicly campaigning for the implementation of Sharee’ah in Canada by proposing an Islaamic-based arbitration court. This was never actualized, by the way.
“why weren’t the scholars looking at the bid’ah of those teachings.”
Exactly my question.
Hey Tariq, do you ever fear for your life talking against these guys? They really seem to have it out for you
“There is a similar individual in Canada named Mubin Shaikh…”
–You basically hit the nail on head with regard to Mubin “I’m not wearing a wire” Shaikh. Mubin’s case is quite interesting in that we find the strange dichotomy of an individual who — on the one hand champions the “implementation of Sharee’ah in Canada” — yet nonchalantly turns around and violates that very (divine) law by betraying fellow believers. Referring to Mubin (and like minded betrayers) as sell-outs is very least that we can say of them.
–One funny thing about Mubin is that I recently saw him once again defending himself and Islamic Law on a politically conservative Canadian blog. Of the dozen or more Candadians who read Mubin’s comments — NOT ONE spoke of him positively or even acknowledged the fact that he was a well known government informant (even though they knew he was an informant because of a video posted on that particular blog). These people, who responded to Mubin, did nothing but berate him because of his religion as well as the way his wife chooses to dress. Goes to show you that no matter how much we do for the disbelievers — even at the cost of our religion — we will still be hated.
–Unfortunately, Mubin’s case ain’t unique. We’ve had the same kind of filth crop up here in Northern Virginia. These few informants have been directly responsible for incarcerating a number of innocent Muslims in our area — and even as far as the UK and Australia.
May Allah (Azza wa Jall) guide these people or give them what is coming, Ameen!
http://www.freali.org
http://www.aliasad.org
Mr Mubin was/is an Islamist that calls for shariah in Canada. His working with the Candian authorities shows that he believes that terrorism is so counterproductive to achieving their goals that it is better to imprison potential terrorists rather than let them destroy everything that they have been working for. Whatever the case, I appreciate when people like Mr Mubin can keep people safe from terror attacks.
I can appreciate a non-violent battle of intellectual ideas, but resorting to terrorism is not tolerable and must be fought by all good people
Here is an article from after the 7/7 bombings to back up my point
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/08/london.muslims/index.html
I believe Mubin’s stated opinion was that “people shouldn’t be blowing up bombs in my backyard,” or as better stated, “not killing my neighbours” - given that the Prophet not only didn’t randomly kill his neighbours, he even went to check if they were ill, while they mocked and harmed him - or don’t you read hadith?
Abu Ameerah, Do you know when Canadians as a whole, or the CBC or others who might happen to be in the buildings that day, declared war on the muslim ummah as a whole, regardless of the fact that there are many who protested the war, treat muslims well, and more than 93% (according to a recent survey) were willing to have a muslim as a neighbour (the same study said only 84% were willing to have homosexuals as neighbours)… but you know better?
Please show your justification for killing, and since it’s an act of ‘ibadah,’ please show your dalil clearly from the Quran and Sunnah. You can’t write your poison pit clearly in public, can you?
Ed: I agree with some of your points…i don’t care, however, to get into any kind of debate. I’ll tell you what…let’s go with the following: You’re right and I am the evil anti-American, Anti-Western, Anti-Zionist, Anti-Capitalist, Mozzlem. Aight? cool.
Dawud: Pardon my French…but….WTF! What in the name of all that is Holy are you talking about? If you want to defend Mubin…go ahead…be my get. Beyond that…I don’t know what the hell you are talking about.
Oh yeah…btw…feel free to continue judging me and putting words in my mouth.
“Please show your justification for killing…”
–What the…?
“…write your poison pit….”
–Looks like somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed…
“be my get…”
–be my guest…
I got me a mytee fine ejumacation…
You said these kids were innocent, and yet you know they planned to blow up the CBC and kill innocent Torontonians. Again, how did the Prophet treat his neighbours?
How do the Canadians treat muslims, in general? I’ll tell you, a lot better than many muslim countries treat immigrants… for instance, how has Pakistan treated it’s Afghan refugees? Or Jordan and Syria treated the Palestinians? If you think it’s legitimate to hate the Canadians and kill them, then you’re my enemy — and if are a Khawarij who thinks that the blood of believers is lawful, then you will be faced down, by scholars and by the righteous.
If that’s “betrayal” - it’s not to Allah and His Messenger, but only to your twisted sense of ‘wala wal bara’ - Surah al-Nisa, 135: O you who believe! be maintainers of justice, bearers of witness of Allah’s sake, though it may be against your own selves or (your) parents or near relatives; if he be rich or poor, Allah is nearer to them both in compassion; therefore do not follow (your) low desires, lest you deviate; and if you swerve or turn aside, then surely Allah is aware of what you do.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.135
Abu Ameera, if you think that the people Mubin turned in and were plotting to kill others are our “brother”, then something is *very* wrong here. A Muslim who intends such things must be turned over to the proper authorities = local police. To ask them to stop is utter naivite, while not raising your hand against them is directly against the orders in the famous hadith I am thinking of…
OmarG….you have no idea what the heck you are talking about…feel free to be a spy if that’s what gets you off….
i dont give a damn.
Dawud:
Learn to read Ahh-Kee
I did read, and you called those (you know them?) who were planning the attacks “fellow believers” (perhaps they did believe in Islam, did the Prophet say that a murderer didn’t get punished because he was muslim?) and then castigate those who said that they were planning murder as “informers” - sorry?
You should learn to read, and spell… and by the way, is your rudeness and offensiveness from the Sunnah, as you proclaim on your blog?
“I did read…”
–Apparently, not carefully enough…
“…you called those (you know them?) who were planning the attacks “fellow believers””
–I did. Are they disbelievers? Have they somehow apostated becuase they violated Canadian law? If so, on what basis are you judging them?
“…did the Prophet say that a murderer didn’t get punished because he was muslim?”
–No. However, did the Prophet (saaws) rule by other than what Allah (swt) had revealed? Essentially, by throwing this group of MUSLIMS — however misguided they may be — to the Canadian Judicial system….you in effect are ruling by other than the law of Allah (swt).
–Also…are these people really murderers? If so, who did they kill?
“…castigate those who said that they were planning murder as “informers” - sorry…”
–Mubin is an INFORMER. I just wish that people like you would have the courage to admit that. After all…if Mubin did nothing wrong — then what is the harm in referring to him as an informer? Let’s just call it as it is…instead of dancing around the issue. If Mubin’s actions as a government INFORMER were indeed good…then why not call him such?
–My original point was that even as an INFORMER for the Canadian government…Mubin was still being attacked and criticized by fellow Canadians on a Canadian blog. They basically treated him with a great deal of contempt and completely disregarded his “patriotic” actions.
“…is your rudeness and offensiveness…”
–I’ll continue with the “rudeness” by simply ending with this:
1. Dawud: I think you’re a Hoser. Sorry, a MAJOR Hoser.
2. Hockey Sucks…no matter what Canadians think.
3. Canada is not a real country. It is merely the 51st state in the Union (lol).
4. I hate Maple syrup. Well…it’s not that bad…but I still wouldn’t buy it if it was a product of Canada.
5. NAFTA Sucks.
Furthermore….
If I was alive during the French and Indian War…I still would not side with the French. The British should have renamed French Canada into something like British Canada and banned all use of the French language.
As time would go by…I think that the British should have also banned hockey or any similar game that may have predated what we regard today as Hockey. This also includes lacrosse.
I must admit, however, that I do enjoy a game of “Air Hockey” every now and again.
Ummm, your last few lines of your comment were kind of weird abu ameerah, And I’m proud to say that I hold both US and Canadian citizenship as well as one other which shall remain nameless. Go Canada! Go USA! Go other Nameless Country!
You said that by throwing them to the Canadian Judical System you are ineffect ruling by other than the law of Allah. Well what would you have liked there punishment to be than?
Are you saying that muslims who commit crimes in Canada or the US should not be subject to Canadian/US law? Don’t you see the stupidity of that statement? If I interpreted what you wrote wrongly than my apologies, but if that’s what you meant than how should muslim criminals be punished? If you live in a country shouldn’t you be subject to the same law as everyone else irrespective of religion?
abu ameerah, I tell you, if you planned to kill my family, and I couldn’t stop you myself, you’re damn right I’d call the cops. Is that judging by other than the laws of Allah, or is that just honoring the hadith that Omar G intended above, by “using one’s hand to stop a wrong” - but yeah, I’d send your ass to jail.
If you believe these countries are made up of Kafirs who are all going to hell, and you can’t practice your religion, make hijra to a land that does - free advice - while I don’t live in Canada, I know many muslims who do, and I know for a fact that they have more rights to practice their religion, open mosques and give dawah, than they do in many many muslim lands - think of what happens to Palestinians in Jordan and Syria for instance?
Have a problem with that? Change the muslim countries first, idjit… or if you’re too lazy or cowardly, I’ll buy you a ticket to a war-zone of your choice, Filisteen, Chechen, or Afghanistan? Ready to go?
Anon:
I stand corrected, sorry. I must admit however that you too, kind sir, are indeed a HOSER.
——-
“I tell you, if you planned to kill my family, and I couldn’t stop you myself, you’re damn right I’d call the cops. ”
–Uh…WTF? I don’t know if it is because you are sufi or what…but you sure have one active George Lucas-type of imagination. Do you also get regular visits by Extra-Terrestrial beings at your home as well? Are you related to Jar-Jar Binks?
“but yeah, I’d send your ass to jail.”
–Weren’t you the guy who belted off this line: “…is your rudeness and offensiveness from the Sunnah…”
–I’ll ask you the very same question.
“If you believe these countries are made up of Kafirs…”
– I believe the correct word to use would be “Kuffar” — as the word you were making reference to something in a plural form. “Kafirs” is not a correct transliteration, as far as I know. However, as an intellectual — you probably knew that. My bad.
“…who are all going to hell…”
–Hmmm…I don’t think I condemned anyone to eternal damnation (hellfire)…I could be wrong…but I suspect that it is simply a case of you (dawud) reading into my words (and conveniently interpreting them however you want).
“…make hijra to a land that does…”
–I am not going to get into any long discussion regarding the Fiqh of Hijrah, as you are a complete waste of time. However, as a true intellectual yourself…and aspiring Great Sheikh (or sufi jedi master - whatever comes first)…feel free to come up to whatever conclusion you like.
“…while I don’t live in Canada…”
–Too bad! However, you’re still a Hoser in my book.
“…think of what happens to Palestinians in Jordan and Syria for instance?”
–Goodness! You just can’t keep your nose out of politics can you. If I was a Jordanian…or Syrian…I doubt I would pleased with your blanket statements. In fact, I know of a sufi who recently went to Jordan…AllahuAlim but he seems fine…he’s makin’ his kind of dawah (or whatever you call it) and continues to blog.
Also, I thought someone of your caliber would like the King of Jordan? Why do you speak ill of such a “modern” and “progressive” nation? Ah well…what do you care though.
“Change the muslim countries first…”
–I do agree that Muslim countries need change and reform to some degree. However, unlike yourself, I am not a religious authority who can make real change. Sometimes change comes from within — and if a people don’t want to change themselves…there ain’t nuthin’ that you or I could do to make a damn bit of difference.
…but then again…you probably understand Fiqh-ud-Dawah better than a laypersonn like myself.
“…if you’re too lazy…”
–That indeed I am. I don’t know what it is…age…being overweight and out of shape…I don’t know. Perhaps I’ve got to do some Tae-Bo or something — or is Tae-Bo “soooooo like 1999.” ???
“…Filisteen, Chechen, or Afghanistan…”
–I thought a “Chechen” referred to a person from Chechnya (or the Chechen-Ingush Republic). I was also under the impression that “Chechen” could be a language spoken by the very same people. Again, an intellectual like yourself probably knew that. In that case…my bad, again.
–In a previous post you wrote: “You should learn to read, and spell…”
I think that it’s time you took some of your own advice.
BTW — “…I’ll buy you a ticket to a war-zone of your choice, Filisteen, Chechen, or Afghanistan?”
– Uhh…I think what you’re trying to do (or express) in this statement is illegal according to US law. Furthermore, I have nothing to do with you or your statements. In addition, you made that statement of your own free will. Finally, I think that you should be reported to the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) immediately!
Are you part of some kind of sleeper cell? I knew something was up! Well…at least us concerned citizens have all of the evidence we need. Incitement and facilitating extremist activity or political violence of any kind is illegal. I, for one, firmly believe that!
You make those statements anywhere near the Courthouse in Alexandria, Va. — and it will be you who possibly winds up in jail…
BTW….the orginal issue and term “informer” was brought up by Br. Abdul Quddus…but then again, you probably knew that also — my bad, once again.
Abdul Quddus:
“There is a similar individual in Canada named Mubin Shaikh who SOLD OUT his brothers as they planned terrorist activities. He became an INFORMANT for the Canadian Security Intelligence Service. His SPYING on his fellow Muslims landed many brothers in jail with terrorism-related charges. Most disturbing is that he played along, instead of discouraging his brothers from terrorism. During all this, he was publicly campaigning for the implementation of Sharee’ah in Canada by proposing an Islaamic-based arbitration court. This was never actualized, by the way.”
– I simply agreed with this original point made by Abdul Quddus and also went on to say that Canadians (on a particular blog I came across) still did not trust Mubin or fully accept his actions as an Informant.
sorry, I was thinking you were following the Sunnah, as your blog says, and cared so deeply about the muslims that you would want to fight on their cause, and that non-muslim law was against Shariah (”la hukm il Allah” as your scholars teach you, right?) - and now that you’re getting queasy, it’s okay if you’re a coward, just please remember we’re muslims and believers here on the internet, even if you don’t like us.
I’m quite serious, that if you feel you want to fight for the sake of Allah, it’d be better to fight kafir oppressors of muslims and not other passers-by, which on Queen St West (location of the CBC) or downtown Toronto would include muslims and believers, and the vast majority of people would not belong to the kafir/tyrant group you hate, or at least we’re led to believe you want to fight against. However, it seems that when a brother suggests that you might actually be helped to go and fight them, you slander him - not from the Sunnah - and then suggest that he be arrested under US law - I’m not in a US jurisdiction, although this website may be, as you maybe - but sadly, I thought you cared more about Allah’s pleasure and defending the muslims.
as well, as for “sending your ass to jail,” that was dependent on your being a supporter of said plans to kill Canadians, amongst which are my family, friends, and fellow muslim believers - some 200 000 of which live in metro Toronto, and some of which whom live and work downtown. And you can be damn sure that if I was ever to find that you wanted to kill them, the police would be the least of your worries.
Do have a nice life, and remember to follow the Quran and Sunnah, both in writing your answer - Allah is watching, as well as your brothers and sisters - and in your day-to-day life, because there will be a Yawm-ul-Qiyama, and I’m not ashamed of what I’ve written and advocated here and on my blog, and we’ll have to see what the Judge of All has to say on the matter.
asSalaam aleykum wa RahmatuLlah