Hatred of the West: the *7th* pillar of Islam
Hatred of the West has become the seventh pillar of Islam (with Palestine being established as the sixth)
And they wonder why people ask “if they hate it so much, then why do they come?
Criticizing things from time to time is one thing - and is fair. However, going on these weekly rants about the evil of the West - while not addressing any of your own problems - gets stale. Then on top of all of that, these very people who make their career out of hatred of the West - when threatened with deportation - will claim all of their Western rights in order to stay and are only dragged out clawing, kicking and screaming.
His target is the kuffar, the nonMuslim, whether Jewish, Christian, Hindu or atheist, and the message is simple: their designs are evil, their ways corrupting. Stay away from them.
[...]
Each preaches the glories of martyrdom, yet while bin Laden hides somewhere near the Pakistan-Afghanistan border, Mr ul Haq lives in Leicester and is fêted internationally as a leading scholar of Islam. His views would be cause enough for concern were he merely a maverick cleric with a small group of followers whose austere, rejectionist agenda was isolated from mainstream Islamic thought.
When Mr ul Haq speaks of his contempt for British ways and Western values, however, it carries the authority of the ultra-conservative Islamic movement whose views are preached in hundreds of mosques and madrassas in Britain. The Deobandis run more than 600 of the 1,300 mosques in Britain and their seminaries – known as darul uloom – produce the vast majority of British-trained Islamic clerics. [Read more]
There is a such thing as “voting with your feet” - meaning to leave. If they are irredeemably evil, then leave. I would say the same to a Westerner living in a Muslim country but constantly and incessantly complaining about how much they hate it - yet getting all kinds of benefits for living there.
Haven’t we grown tired of being angry all the time? Or is being angry all the time the eighth pillar of Islam?
Filed under: Muslim Isolation
As salaamu ‘alaykum ya Tariq,
I really urge you to fear Allaah (swt) and take this down immediately. I don’t know if you are familiar with the scholar mentioned in the article, but his talks have been available for years. He is a beautiful scholar and even if you disagree with him on some issues, he is certainly someone whose knowledge demands our respect. To launch an attack using a hatchet piece by someone named Andrew Norfolk is a big mistake. Mr. Norfolk’s understanding of the deen is so great that he thinks someone’s nam eis “Mr. ul-Haq” and yet he is our source to attack someone who is not only a brother in Islaam but a scholar of the deen.
May Allaah (swt) forgive us all.
This pseudo-scholar is a disgrace to the UK. If the man wants to preach hate, let him do it in the Islamic world. Better yet, given his hatred of Hindus, ship him to Ayodhya.
We have had it with these numbskulls:
http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2006/06/what_could_poss.html
“What could possibly get Jewish, Muslim, Hindu and gay communities in Canada to join together? A controversial cleric from the United Kingdom who they say actively preaches intolerance and hatred. They want him barred from entering Canada and speaking at seminars and colleges. They have heard his speeches on the internet and believe he crosses the line from free speech to hate speech.
Even Tarek Fatah, the communications director of the Muslim Canadian Congress wants to keep ul-Haq out of Canada, saying “views like those espoused by Mr. ul-Haq should never be permitted in Canada.”
Very typical of the brainwashed Westernized Muslims, who neither want to defend Palestine nor openly & persistently condemn the carnage America is perpetrating in Iraq and through Israel in Palestine. I think Palestine is boring to them, now Darfur is the new fad, and there seems to be (to the above-mentioned specimens) “ample” evidence testifying to the alleged Arab massacres of Negroes of the region!! Absolute trash!!!
We didn’t come to the West because we love it, but because we want to survive! The West has uprooted you, O African, from your homeland, and you yourself are staying here and ain’t going back to West Africa (where you may have originated from) due to bad economic conditions. You want to fare well in this part of the world, believing that you can still hold on to your Islam here. Same with us: the Western powers messed up the Muslim world from Jakarta to Tangiers; they aren’t allowing key countries to have real home-grown industries, and they aren’t allowing for honest, transparent governing (that’s only attainable through the Islamists ruling, because they are the God-conscious ones, who fear an Account Day and all), they aren’t allowing us to prosper, they aren’t allowing us to sell our oil for its real price per barrel, they aren’t allowing our countries to unite and be stronger, NOTHING. And people aren’t able to change the status quo due to the vicious tactics of the ruling regimes, so they grow fed up, and just leave, immigrate, where they can at least live a dignified living, minding their own business (or so they think). They settle here, their kids grow here, forget why their parents came here, and they start becoming religous (the kids) and ideologically charged against the West, some of them do quit living here, some don’t want but to vent. Those who conspire against the countries that hosted them are acting against the Quran they preach. If true to their beliefs, they should leave the West first then try to attack it from outside, but to do so while living here is treason and the host countries are justified whatever measure they take to crack down on their likes.
I’d condemn the Western values of absolute freedom (so as to allow gay marriages & topless women and nude beaches, public drinking & stuff of that sort), but other than that..I’d say this is heaven on earth. It’s ones with high iman who would leave the comfort of living here (despite the expensive living & the constant fitnahs) adn go back to places like Gaza, Peshawar, Damascus or Cairo, where there are no laws, roads, transparent governing & state-sponsored terrorism; that is if they can’t find jobs in the few affluent parts of the vast Muslim world, Malaysia and the Arab Gulf states.
So what is it do you want? Some people can’t hold the feeling of disgust from what the Western governments are doing to our coreligionists and countrymen back home!!! You may have accepted the ‘bribe’ (of allowing you to stay in North America, which was meant to be an extension of White Europe), but others would want to negotiate their obligations to these Western states (as citizens of theirs) or ..they just didn’t vote, you know, so they aren’t to blame for idiots likle Bush coming to power!!! No body here revolted against Bush, never did people in the democratic West topple a corrupt cabinet for the crimes perpetrated outside, so…what do you want us to do?
I’m in support of liberating our lands from the corrupt, agent, apostates ruling them, but through popular revolutions, not bombing Western cities!! God knows that in my heart I hold that the majority of people in the West are nice people (if not bigot, ignorant Zionist-brainwashed by the media), and they don’t deserve the revenge killings being carried out by al-Qaeda and its sympathizers!! The dilemma is that Islam, whether we like it or not, gave the option to kill in revenge, but Allah followed that sanction with the recommendation to ‘be patient’. I personally don’t approve of revenge killings, but our religion does as is clear in the Quran, but it doesn’t make it a duty on us to follow that sanctioned act. Islam was revealed at a time when humans were incredibly vicious on the battlefields, and for Muslims back then to be the complete idealists who wouldn’t retaliate back SOMETIMES in a way similar to the non-believers, that would have made Musilms look ..what, what’s the word I’m looking for here? Certainly not ‘angels’ who ‘go by the book of Mercy’, but maybe idiots who wouldn’t inflict pain on those who inflicted it on them Muslims.
Thsoe who speak about taking over the West and claiming it for Islam aren’t following Islam themselves in that matter. Thsoe who talk like that and stay here are also weak in Iman, otherwise they should go back there and try to actualize their words if they were really genuine. I personally wouldn’t go back to the lawless Third-World Muslim countries unless I get a good job offer, and I know that what al-Qaeda is doing is futile and is causing more harm than good. Al-Qaeda wants to establish the Caliphate, but there aren’t yet those Muslims who deserve to populate the land of this Caliphate. I mean, you Tariq should be the first to be deported from it, you and the rest of the corrupt, Westernized clowns and arrogant ignorants who fill your comment section and Umar’s. Your likes don’t deserve any sacrifice made by other Muslims in order to build for them an Islamic state. You deserve another Noah’s flood to wash you away and out of existence, because you are fitnah, you are ‘rowaybidahs’, whom the Prophet defined as: ‘he who is silly and insignificant, discussing public matters.” He (pbuh) said these rowaybidahs will emerge in flocks near the End Times, and I see ample examples in this blog and Umar’s. I’m not here to make da’wah, a Muslim’s utterances don’t all have to be ayahs and hadiths. If they were you’d still mock him. You are getting from me what you and your ilk deserve, you arrogant ignorant racists.
Salam bro Tariq,
You should think twice before making a blog post with a title: Hatred of the West; The *7th* pillar of Islam. Not only is it mocking and insulting of Islam (which I am sure you did not mean) but you are also giving ammunition to all the muslim haters who have been saying all along that Islam preaches hate the West.
glad that “West African” still has some good analyzing skills! I was just coming to say what he said to Kneelson. Kneelson, you claim to be a teacher at some Islamic institute, but you have no adab and absolutely no fiqh. You are mocking Islam by making this joke about it (Palestine being a 6th pillar, hating the West a 7th!). You are on equal footing now with the Shia who mocked Islam when they took out the Shahadah and made the Imamate the 5th pillar. You are a stupid clown, not mentally fit to teach Islam. You need it to be taught to you from the basics, idiot! You kinda find it extremely genius to have come up with this 6th and 7th pillar, you weren’t the first to say Palestine is the 6th, but I told you and your ignorant crew before and I’ll say it again: all Muslim lands are equal, Palestine is only a symbol, just like the Palestinian flag and the Palestinian ‘kaffiyeh’ have become today the signs of the opporesse and the persecuted, worn in anti-globalization demonstrations and the flag raised even by the discontented Amerindians!
Wallah everytime I visit this blog and that other one I feel like I’m about to puke. Your ignorance is appalling and disgusting. It’s either we agree with you or we’re the illogical lunatics. Go to hell with this false Islamic knowledge you claim to have! You should be looking up the punishment your likes deserve in an Islamic state, whipping or banishment, something of this sort.
As salaamu ‘alaykum Bro. Hussam,
Dear brother I don’t think the personal attacks are going to help the situation nor are they the method of the Prophet (saw) to correct someone even if they have a mistake.
I believe brother Tariq and brother Umar are sincere and they make many good points. They also make some points or occasionally phrase things in ways I totally disagree with. So, I benefit from their good and occasionally advise them when I think they make a mistake. This is what I hope they or you would do for me and this is the Islamic brotherhood.
If, as is apparent from your comments, you somehow have decided that the brothers are not sincere or are beyond redemption, then perhaps you should just avoid reading the blog. For example, I don’t read Muslim Wake Up and rip those people constantly.
I am not comparing Tariq and Umar to MWU but bro. Hussam seems to feel the same way about you guys that I may feel about some of the posters there.
InshAllaah ta’ala let us all focus on engaging in deeds which are of benefit, for certainly we will account for all of our deeds on the Day of Judgment. And, surely, although it is hard to remember in this internet age, the words we choose to speak are deeds we will certainly have to account for.
Allaah knows best.
Jazak Allah khair for the reminder, brother Abu Nour. Certainly, reading these two blogs poisons the blood in my body, I should really avoid coming here like I avoid harms on the road. But just so you know, these people don’t listen, they are arrogant, they think they know it all and are credible authorities and have attained all truths, when their shallow fiqh and awareness of world events testifies to the complete opposite. I write to discredit them and insult the ignorance in them, and to use their paid domains for my opinions to reach far more than the mostly hopeless of those who comment here.
You’re a good man, Abu Nour, but this ignoramus won’t stop spreading false knowledge and posing like an authority.
Tariq, you clearly hit an (exposed) nerve:
“Same with us: the Western powers messed up the Muslim world from Jakarta to Tangiers; they aren’t allowing key countries to have real home-grown industries, and they aren’t allowing for honest, transparent governing (that’s only attainable through the Islamists ruling, because they are the God-conscious ones, who fear an Account Day and all), they aren’t allowing us to prosper…”
Yeah, blame the West instead of your own corrupt leadership and failure to embrace modernity…
Amazing, the West is responsible for all ME ills. By all means elect the Islamists. Then when they fail, who will you blame? Maybe we should get out of ME and you, all of you, should get out of here. You deserve to live in an Islamic state, Hariri. Pet the tiger until it bites you in the throat.
[...] Saturday, September 8th, 2007 in Uncategorized [Hat tip to Tariq Nelson] [...]
Tariq,
Salaam and thanks for just saying what’s plain in front of our faces. Though I think denial is the 8th pillar these days and what you’re saying will mostly fall on deaf ears.
Peace
Hussam Hariri, calm down… you are judging a blogger that i would guess you have never met in person. rather than make enemies, why not have a better dialog on this topic. how can Muslims ever get together if there is all this constant in-fighting????
Maybe muslim in-fighting is the best thing for the rest of the world.
Hussam Hariri is an insane kawarij takfiri bum who talks shit online about his betters. Until he’s put on some zoloft or something there’s nothing to dialogue with him about.
As salaamu ‘alaykum Dave,
Have you listened to the lectures of Shaykh Abu Yusuf Riyadh ul-Haq? You really agree with what the article says about him? What is right in front of our faces? That the Deobandi movement is one of dangerous extremists?
This article is exactly the type of slanderous, ridiculous nonsense that one would expect to find of LGF. In fact the article is on LGF right now? Every single statement they use as an example of extremism is basically a quote from the Qur’an or Sunnah. Are these unacceptable to teach in the “West”?
Wa Allaahu Alam wa Allaahu Musta’an…I’m really saddened to see this type of thing.
It is fine if one wants to write yet another post about how Muslims shouldn’t be anti-western and then people want to comment and courageously defend the U.S. and the U.K….but to spread and endorse lies and slanders against a scholar of the Muslims who has devoted his whole life to learning and teaching this deen to people here in the West is just beyond me.
Another pearl of wisdom from Dave. So what religion are you now?
You know what gives LGFers more ammo than any other single source? The way the nutcases run the house and everyone is afraid to criticize them because of a misinterpretation of the precept against backbiting (which only applies to criticizing pet scholars apparently, Hariri makes no secret of his hatred for non-salafis). Everyone acts like we have to maintain this united house and not speak out against the extremists.
Anyway, I have lived in the UK and there is a strong atmosphere, especially among desi youth, of extremism. Are all deobandis extremists? No but to deny there is a very serious problem with extremism and that the ridiculous living-off-the-west while-hating-it mindset is prevelant in many quarters. Shayk Al-Haq has promoted his share of this.
The need to politicize EVERYTHING gets old too, I gotta say. Today I was at Jummah and the imam is giving a ramadan khutba, then for no reason he just launches into a tirade against Israel in the middle of it. Blah.
Sandra
Still a muslim, I just don’t hypenate it, or follow a particular school of thought. What’s your point exactly?
Oh, and Abu Noor, I forgot to add waa salaam, my apologies.
Abu Noor
as-salaam alaykum,
My point here is that yes the West is not beyond criticism, but do we have to hear it over and over and over and over and over again about how evil the West is?
In the UK, many of the very ones (I’m not saying that this particular person is one of them) who constantly criticize the country are ON THE DOLE. Does that not look hypocritical?
There is an old saying that we should light a candle instead of (constantly) cursing the darkness. I think it is time we lit some candles
ASA:
We clearly know that akh Tariq was making a point with his title, not being literal.
I think that it’s shameful too that some of the same people in the UK and in the USA, who are so preoccupied with denouncing the ‘kuffar’ are some of the same people that receive government welfare or send their second or third wife down to the WIC office or welfare office. I know too many brothers that go with a jama’ah that aren’t holding down a job while their wives and kids are at home hungry, who then have the nerve to find total fault with the’kuffar.” It’s disgrace to the Ummah.
Personally, I’ve stayed in 4 different Muslim countries, and I prefer being here over them all despite the Islamophobia that we face here.
I think that a lot of this anti-Western sentiment is due to us having deen al-Haqq, but Muslims are languishing and in pitiful shape all over the Muslim world. Many of us are mad with the present reality.
You forget that the West has stolen our lands, our riches, and continues to loot our oil, that they will never ever compensate Palestinians and Iraqis for the lost lives and lands, while the privileged American victims of the Lockerbie plane crash their families got 10 million dollars on each one of them!!! The least the West can do to pay us back after messing up our economies then forcing us to immigrate to its land to build it (after they killed each other in 2 world wars), the least they could do is pay welfare for our poor who came to their countries!! That’s our money returned to us!!! Even the money they pay for our oil (IF they were paying the official, announced price, that is -which is a myth!), these payments are deposited into bank accounts IN THE WEST too, from which their usurous banks give loans to persons and companies, etc etdc!!! In other words, all the affluence Western Europe and North America are enjoying is the result of our looted money and riches, otherwise they would be as stinking as Russia and Eastern Europe!!! All the aid they gave to the Palestinian authority, to Palestinians under siege in Gaza, etc etc, all that is part of our money they stole through lowered oil prices and industires and projects they killed in their cradle, ever since Muhammad Ali the ruler of Egypt, when the British and the French bombed his factories in Alexandria to prevent the emergence of a modern Arab state!
Let me remind those who want us to “modernize” that the first street to EVER be lit in an European street was in Muslim Spain, that you people didn’t know how to bathe (and to this day you are lower than animals, you don’t clean yourself after using the washroom, nor even wash your hands, O modern sub-animals!!! Your Roman numbers paralyzed you, you had no papers before Muslim Spain, you had no guitars, not ballads, you loaned so many words from Arabic (hurry, girl, candy, cable, racket, magazine, zero,..), without us you’d still be the barbarian tribes whose enemy of 1000 stinking, filthy men would cause the death of a million European (like my history professor once told us in the lecture, lol).
You are f*cked up, even in the West! Look how God is punishing you for your greed, insisting on using fossil fuel to run everything, now the entire climate of your own countries is changing as a result, your coastal cities will drown, and many are already dying! It’s 40 degrees in Canadad these days, pffff, and your people are aging, and immigration won’t help, and same-sex marriages are added to the toxic mix, O modern ones, you are just DOOMED, O modern ones!!! And penniless. You live off what you steal from the South of this planet, be it Africa or the Arab or Muslim world which is 10 times richer but its corrupt rulers are guarded by you.
I said it before, about the former Coptic priest from Egypt who became Musilm and unveiled that one of the goals of the World Church Council is to prevent heavy industries from reaching the Muslim world. You want us only to consume your products, that’s how your ugly colonialism started until you’d go as far as Japan to sell the Japanese from your goods (because your people were always heavily taxed and bankrupt, wouldn’t afford to pay for your own local goods and make your economies grow. You are like bacteria, germs that live on the pains of others! Egypt was exporting grains to FRANCE in the late 19th century, what did you do to Egypt to make it import most of the grain it needs from the US now? Who were the evil powers that wanted to stop Nasser from nationalizing the Suez canal (a pure Egyptian soil)? Who carved us the Arab world into petty states, and created the Kingdom of Jordan to guard Israel from the east, and who prevented the union between Chad and Libya? The list can go on, but you are oblivious of everything, even how the corporte elite continues to loot you and everyone in the West through capitalism.
The Islamists, whenever they were left to rule, they fixed everything. Look how even the weak Hamas scared them, how the FIS in Algeria scared them, how al-Bashir (when he declared an Islamic Sudan) scared them until they broke up his country into 4 regions, look what they did to Iraq (as Saddam was becoming closer to Allah, until he’d say in one of his last speeches before the American invasion: I want to build a nation that exemplifies the Islamic states run by Abu Bakr, Omar, Uthman and Ali!! NO wonder they said: even if Saddam abdicated, we’ll enter Iraq!! And now these Jihadists are the fruit of Saddam’s last 10 years or rule, since he launched the “Iman campaign” your Zionist media wouldn’t allow you to hear about.
And then you don’t want us to hate the Western foreign policies? They have done wonders to stay the masters of the world, but nothing lasts forever, and the 21st century they once called “the American century” has witnessed in its early years an astounding defeat of America in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the end of the American empire stretching over most of the world. The 21st century is the century of Islam. Die from vexing. Wait and see.
Hussam,
You are right “we’re all doomed, doooomed I say” Oh to harken back to the wondrous years circa 1100 AD. when everything was just glorious.
Hey bro, excellent rant, I could almost see the foam in the corners of your mouth.
Please keep it up man, it’s impossible to find classic ravings of that calibre.
You da man.
“Nah, seeing you get gang-raped and then kicked to the curb would be the best thing for the civilized world”
This is quite possibly one of the most disgusting comments I’ve ever read on any website I’ve ever visited. Its funny that a large percentage of muslims and religious people in general like to consider themselves as being morally and intellectually superior to nonmuslims or muslims or whatever religion they are not part of yet act, speak, write, and think no differently from their moral/intellectual “inferiors” (*cough* Hussam *cough* Danial). Some of you are just really pathetic
Tariq,
Unlike some of your brothers I realize you were speaking rhetorically as it relates to ‘pillars’.
I think much common ground can be found among thinking individuals of different faiths to allow us our differences and yet emphasize our collective responsibility to each other.
The varied responses here, some thoughtful and searching and others just idiotic rants or plain hate makes one realize that the process for moving forward will have to transcend simple alliances based upon first glance.
I will not allie myself with a hateful Christian spouting garbage and thankfully I’ve found many Muslims will not support another Muslim spouting hate in a knee jerk fashion either.
We don’t always agree but I respect your opinion.
Hussam is obviously a tool, but he’s amusing.
Great post Tariq - the names of the people don’t matter, what matters is what they are preaching an the inconsistencies between their preaching and life in the West.
salam
AA-
You know its too bad that Hussam is so obnoxious. I would like to see us engage him in a constructive manner. His logic seems to reflect what is on the minds of the majority of the Muslim world. Western Muslims too often are too disengaged from the rest of the world to realize this harsh reality…
Such a discourse is sorely needed - much more than any Salafi-Sufi nonsense.
Hussam, grow up and cease the name-calling - maybe then someone will take you seriously…I for one find myself in agreement with some of what you say (uhmmm, keep the Saddam turning back to Islam rhetoric to yourself…now, that is really wack!), so I would be interested in a serious dialogue…
But I fear that may be too late…oh well…
WA-
Br Naeem
That’s part of the problem. If all people hear is an irrational hatred, curses, shouting and a bunch of ranting they will tune that person out. You are not going to change many minds by calling them horrible names and threatening to kill them and their children.
I think that any reasonable person is willing to RATIONALLY debate some points, but you won’t find many that are interested in debating the merits of murdering every Westerner and pillaging their belongings - ala OBL.
Thanks patb
[...] the other hand, you have the irrational anti-Westernism that leads to murder and maiming. Both extremes lead to a dehumanization of the other and leads to [...]
foreigners
The Convert’s Zeal
Radical Islamism has become a magnet for some of the world’s angriest people.
By Daniel Benjamin
Posted Friday, Sept. 7, 2007, at 5:15 PM ET
——————————————————————————–
Much as this June’s failed terrorist attacks in London and Glasgow focused attention on the participation of doctors and other professionals in jihadist terror, the plot disrupted in Germany this week seems certain to put the spotlight on another key group within violent Islamism: converts.
We don’t know much thus far about Fritz Gelowicz or Daniel Martin Schneider, the two German converts who were apprehended earlier this week along with Adem Yilmaz, who has been identified as a Turk. Another seven conspirators, about whom very little has been released, are also being hunted. But the hundreds of gallons of concentrated hydrogen peroxide—useful for bomb-building—they acquired, and the fact that, according to German officials, they had managed to train with the pros in Pakistan suggest that these operatives were, as one U.S. official put it, “the real deal.”
That may surprise people who have viewed the converts as being the oddest of the oddballs inside al-Qaida’s big tent. There have been grounds for such thinking: Among the most famous are Richard Reid, the oafish would-be shoe bomber, and Jose Padilla, the former fast-food chicken flipper whose ability to construct a dirty bomb, as touted by former Attorney General John Ashcroft, was never proved. But to write them all off as misguided dullards would be a mistake. That there are so many of them tells us something important about the movement, because some are highly competent and have real operational advantages compared with other radicals.
Their numbers are indeed astonishing. Converts have been involved in jihadist activity since before al-Qaida was fully formed. The “TERRSTOP” conspiracy to blow up landmarks and tunnels in New York City in the mid-1990s included two converts, Clement Hampton-El, an African-American who had been to Afghanistan, and Victor Alvarez, a dimwitted janitor turned gofer for the cell. (Though that conspiracy landed the “Blind Sheikh,” Omar Abdel Rahman, in jail, a connection to al-Qaida was never asserted.) In Osama Bin Laden’s empire, converts have always been well-represented. Wadih el-Hage, the Saudi’s personal assistant and, later, the architect of the East Africa cells that carried out the 1998 embassy bombings, came from a Lebanese Maronite family. The American Taliban, John Walker Lindh, certainly had no problems being accepted in al-Qaida circles. More recently, Californian Adam Gadahn, aka Adam Pearlman, aka Azzam the American, has become a blogosphere celebrity as the English-language voice of al-Qaida.
Well before the German bust, converts were turning up regularly in European terrorist operations. In the 1990s, several French converts, including brothers David and Jerome Courtailler, fought in Bosnia and later turned up in jihadist activities. A German, Christian Ganczarski, became a significant al-Qaida operative and was linked to a 2002 bombing on the Tunisian island of Djerba. The Walters brothers, Jason and Jermaine, sons of a U.S. serviceman and Dutch mother, were members of the Hofstad gang, which included Mohammed Bouyeri, the Dutch-Moroccan assassin of film director Theo van Gogh in 2004. Jamaican-born, English-raised Germaine Lindsay was one of the four members of the cell that carried out the Tube attacks in London in 2005. In November 2005, Muriel Degauque, a 38-year-old Belgian baker’s assistant and former Catholic, became the first female Muslim suicide bomber from Europe when she attacked a U.S. patrol in Iraq, wounding one soldier.
If that list doesn’t suffice to make the case that radical converts represent a real danger, the example of Dhiren Barot, an Indian-born British-raised convert from Hinduism known as Issa al-Hindi, ought to clinch it. Barot carried out the surveillance of the New York Stock Exchange and the Citigroup Building in New York City and the International Monetary Fund in Washington, D.C. Intelligence officers I spoke with described the reams of material he supplied as some of the highest-quality work they had ever seen. Barot, fortunately, is now serving a 30-year sentence in a British jail.
One might have thought that terrorist organizations would be leery of converts and worry that they were unreliable or even suspect them to be moles. The opposite has been true. According to French sociologist Olivier Roy, 10 percent of al-Qaida’s soldiers in the global jihad are converts, and in France the number might reach 25 percent. Roy takes this as an indicator of the group’s globalized nature, “because a convert is not motivated by his or her culture at all. He is not motivated by the political life of his or her country. He’s motivated by joining something global. Al-Qaida is made of born again [Muslims] and converts who join the global jihad. One day they go to Bosnia and another to Chechnya, or to Kashmir, or to Afghanistan, or to Fallujah.”
Moreover, the phenomenon of conversion plays an important part in al-Qaida’s cosmology. When the group’s propagandists talk about its ultimate victory, the conversion of the Christian West is often mentioned as a major milestone. When the organization wants to show it is on a roll, it also may refer to the current growth in conversions. In a video that aired on Dec. 13, 2001, Bin Laden claimed that the 9/11 attacks had been “understood by both Arabs and non-Arabs. … In Holland, at one of the centers, the number of people who accepted Islam during the days that follow the operations were more than the people who accepted Islam in the last 11 years.” Bin Laden also relayed a report he had heard regarding an Islamic educator in America who claimed, “We don’t have time to keep up with the demands of those who are asking about Islamic books to learn about Islam.” Having so many converts in its ranks is clearly a mark of achievement.
Bin Laden’s boasts of mass conversions are mostly bluster. But while good data is hard to come by, scholars and clerics suggest that the numbers are up significantly in the United States and Europe. According to a German government study cited in Der Spiegel, between mid-2004 and mid-2005, 4,000 Germans converted to Islam—about 13 times the rate just three years earlier. A sociologist quoted in the article says some see conversion to Islam as a dramatic act that makes them “stand out from the crowd.” Though negligible in the larger scheme of things, the chance that a convert will turn jihadist is much greater than that of someone born Muslim. That suggests that for those who turn violent, the act is more a matter of standing against the crowd rather than standing out from it. Radical Islamism seems to have become the magnet for some of the world’s angriest people who feel the universe is out of joint and must be changed. For these converts, it is an ideology of revolt that is more attractive because of its crystalline hatred of the status quo than its theology.
The “zeal of the convert” may be a cliché, but it is a true one that helps explain the presence of so many former non-Muslims in jihadist terror—and why terrorist leaders find them so useful. Another reason is that whether they have formal profiling programs or not, Western law-enforcement officials are inevitably going to be less likely to suspect someone who looks like one of their own. (Fortunately for the Germans, Fritz Gelowicz had distinguished himself as a radical years ago and had run-ins with the law.) Abu Musab al-Zarqawi understood this and called for the creation an army of “white-skinned” mujahideen. It appears that may be happening without any help from the Iraqi jihad’s dead emir.
Daniel Benjamin is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. A former director for counterterrorism on the National Security Council staff, he has co-written The Next Attack: The Failure of the War on Terror and a Strategy for Getting it Right.
Article URL: http://www.slate.com/id/2173561/
AA- Tariq,
Thanks for your remarks…
“I think that any reasonable person is willing to RATIONALLY debate some points, but you won’t find many that are interested in debating the merits of murdering every Westerner and pillaging their belongings - ala OBL.”
I agree, but I wasn’t referring to OBL and the like. I was talking about Hussam and his logic. I read something different in his rant…that’s what I was speaking to.
Am I wrong to assume that his thoughts can be readily found in the ‘Muslim street’? If so, methinks it important to have this dialogue…
Salaam Tariq,
Did you happen to read this post by Yusuf Smith on the piece you quoted above?
To Hussam Hariri,
Allaah says in Surah al-Maa’idah verse 8:
“…and do not let your hatred of a people led you to commit injustice. Be just! It is close to taqwa, and fear Allaah. Indeed Allaah is Well-Acquainted with what you do.”
And Imaam Bukhaaree had a chapter in his Saheeh: ‘al-Ilmu qablu Qawl wa Amal’ (Knowledge Precedes Speech and Action).
Hussaam said:
The West has uprooted you, O African, from your homeland, and you yourself are staying here and ain’t going back to West Africa (where you may have originated from) due to bad economic conditions. (!!?)
Anyone who has even the slightest and most rudimentary understanding of history wil know that there is a 400 year + discontinuum between slavery and its descendents today in th Americas.
Then Hussam says:
I’m in support of liberating our lands from the corrupt, agent, apostates ruling them, but through popular revolutions… (!)
Is this from Islam? What Muslims scholars from the Arab lands have declared the leaders of the Muslim lands in generality as being apostates? What justifies this declaration that they are “apostates” as youather oddly suggested?
Then at the end of Hussam Hariri’s initial rant he has the audacity to accuse Tariq of being “racist”?! That then, is an unjust division.
As for Riyadh ul-Haq then it is well known that he was aligned to the likes of Abdullah Faisal the extremist Jamaican preacher, Faisal actually name-checked him in the infamous lecture The Devil’s Deception of the audi Salafis, wherein Faisal makes takfeer of the Salafis and encourages women to divorce from their Salafi husbands!!? Not to mention the fact that within Birmingham Riyadh ul-Haq is known to gather around him a band of fanatical partisan followers who are willing to implement anything that he encourages them to do, the more unfortunate results of this were not only aired on BBC’s Cromewatch programme last year but can also be referred to here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/3527480.stm
Tariq, I have been reading your posts and Umar’s for sometime now and it has really given me a good understanding of the hatred between muslims and non-muslims in the west, not only from the posts, but also from comments. This post is amazing and the comments reveal the thinking of those who comment.
I wonder if they know that.
Thanks Abdul-Haq and Nita
What have they got on Shaikh Riyadh?
The Times yesterday had a front-page “exposé” of the supposed “hardline take-over of British mosques” by what the writer called “a hardline Islamic sect whose leading preacher loathes Western values and has called on Muslims to ’shed blood…
As-Salaamu ‘alaikum,
Shaikh Riyadh-ul-Haq wasn’t that closely aligned with Faisal. Faisal did mention him in “The Saudi Salafis”, saying that the group he was attacking did not call Shaikh Riyadh, whom he said was “a sincere brother” in his opinion, a shaikh, but did say that about someone who studied for a year or two in Madinah University and got kicked out. I listened to several of his more inflammatory lectures and heard no other mention of the shaikh. Faisal is not a Deobandi - a Deobandi scholar is someone who graduated from Deoband, Saharanpur or a school “descended” from one of those two like Darul-Uloom Karachi or Matliwala in Gujarat. His knowledge, such as it is, comes from studying in Saudi Arabia.
As for his supposed connection to the murder in the gym, it has been several years and he has not been charged with anything. If you have proof that the murderers were acting on the shaikh’s orders, Abdul-Haq, I hope you have contacted West Midlands police with it.
Shaikh Riyadh is a respected figure among the Deobandi community in the UK even if his lectures are sometimes a bit over-emotional and even if the Deobandis generally can be a bit harsh with Muslims from outside their community. He is not a ranting demagogue and (as I pointed out elsewhere) the capitalised sections in the lectures reproduced on the Times website were not shouted, or otherwise emphasised, in the original. The emphasis was introduced in the transcripts. By the way, the Murdoch Times is notorious for its pro-neocon sympathies and is not regarded as a balanced newspaper (then again, neither are any of them although the Guardian is IMHO the most balanced). The controversy over Faisal, which was broken by the Times, made much of his remarks about Jews and Hindus but said next to nothing about his suggestion that certain “salafi” preachers be killed or that Bareilawis are mushriks who were to be killed before Christians. So, Riyadh-ul-Haq’s statement about Muslim lives being seen as less valuable than others’ has some truth to it.
I suggest, Tariq, that you know nothing about the situation other than having read a slag-off article in a biased newspaper, and should do your research before you post, or else don’t post at all.
salam…
What little I know about Shaykh Riyadh is that he is a good, sincere person who is an inspirational speaker for many Muslims, esp. the youth.
I think if there is one lesson that we could have learned from the Channel 4 hit-job is that you have to be careful of what you take wholesale about your Muslim brothers from any source, unless you have yourself verified the facts (especially when you intend to publicize it because then you become part of the distortions and rumors).
The news article referred to in this post was obviously and blatantly one-sided and clearly intended to vilify the Shaykh. There was NO attempt to show the other side as a fair-minded and true journalist would be expected to do. The plan seems clear… keep attacking Muslim scholars with cut and paste jobs, out-of-context quotations as well as a splattering of “common Islamic themes” that the majority of Muslims accept, painting them in a manner that sounds “dangerous” and “imminent”. So, if one were to talk about the signs of the Day of Judgment, he very well could end up being in the Sun the next day for quoting some hadith. While at the same time, the Evangelists are free to romanticize end-times with the murder or conversion enmasse of Jews (according to their interpretation of the Book of Revelation).
As far as we know Shaykh Riyadh has never called for violence in any form… otherwise you bet the journalist would have found that quote. Perhaps he was getting too popular and shooting down the Muslim stars is the name of the game these days. And it will keep going on until they get every one of them. What is unfortunate is that it seems that we, the Muslims, who are supposed to give benefit of doubt to our brothers, keep falling for it everytime– in wrongly-seated zeal to appear as the opposite. Wallahu Musta’aan.
I’m not familiar with this individual and only have a vague overview of the issue in GB as it relates to the channel 4 expose.
However, are not the Deobandis of the Hanafi train of thought and that also encompasses the Taliban?
These Pashtun tribesmen (Taliban) are not exactly enlightened practioners of anything remotely related to the last 1000 years.
Define ‘a bit over emotional’ are we talking physically or rhetorically?
I’ve talked to some Brit Muslims (soldiers actually {for transparency}) and they told me that they’ve often heard what they called ‘traitorous’ comments preached in their Mosques. One of them said he’s joined up in response to this.
The other told me a good joke about “never wear your best shoes to prayer”.
Deobandis tend to declare takfir on other groups, even Barelvi Sunnis.
Danial: it’s the other way round. The Barelvis are notorious for asserting that they are Ahlus-Sunnah and not the Deobandis (indeed, they routinely contrast Deobandi or Wahhabi - as if they were the same thing - with Sunni). They also make takfeer on several early Deobandi scholars alleging that they insulted the Prophet (sall’ Allahu ‘alaihi wa sallam), something they deny. I’ve heard Deobandis accuse the Brelvis of bid’a and shirk, but never actually calling them kafirs.
Your Link to “Muslims DO denounce terror” is messed up, an extra http: or something.
“This is quite possibly one of the most disgusting comments I’ve ever read on any website I’ve ever visited.”
The comments here are rather mild compared to what’s out there on the net. The right-wing blog, Little Green Footballs, regularly has comments far more vile than anything here. So does the left-wing blog, Indymedia.
There was a great episode of the Dave Chappelle’s Show where he notes that if the Internet was an actual place, it would be sleazy and disgusting.
Here is the segment:
http://thatvideosite.com/video/155
Enjoy!
[...] Irrational Hatred of the West Jump to Comments Tariq has been taking some lumps for his post on some Muslims’ endless condemnation of the West. Even IF the hatred was [...]
This attack on Riyadh ul-Haq is odd, since he’s a Sufi Shaykh (he’s a Chisti and his mureeds are all over Sunniforum). Aren’t the Sufis what the west has been promoting as “true Islam”?
If “hatred of the west” is the 7th pillar of Islam, then hatred of all non-whites is a the first pillar of western “civilization.”
Joey,
Interesting point and original too.
I disagree in generalizations generally but why does pointing out one terrible thing negate another? I’ve never understood that logic.
In debate 101 they call that obsfucation, when you’ve run out of intelligent argument or are simply lost create a smoke screen with an emotional outburst.
Well done.
Joey,
Do you honestly believe western civilization hates the Japanese, considering America’s fascination with Anime and general admiration for their culture? And does western civilization hate Hindu India, a popular tourist spot and growing business/technology partner?
True western civilization has some very strong ideological points of view and is often distrustful of cultures that do not share these values, but I like to think this is not based on skin color.
Kyle, have you seen what anime looks like? Western fascination with Japanese cartoons is not an endorsement of Japanese culture, and theres more to the Japanese then cartoons. As for India, 2 nukes on Japan and 400 years of Brit colonialism says otherwise.
White people are paranoid and afraid of people with real culture.
Yusuf,
What is the difference between saying someone is a kaffir and someone who commits shirk? Both are outside of Islam. It’s like an apple and an orange. They are both fruit.
Tariq,
Sometimes the forest is not seen for the trees. I know the point you were trying to make I and agree with you 100%. Allah will not help us until we do something to help ourselves. The reason the way the Muslim world is the way it is, is not because of the West; it is because of the problems of the Muslim world itself.
If the Muslim world was closer to God and His prophet they wouldnt be living the way they are.
I think that God has allowed the Muslim world to be subjegated directly because of the things they have and have not done.
Tariq Nelson,
I have to agree with Hussam Hariri (for once and probably the last time). Your post is VERY IGNORANT.
Why should Muslims love the West??? Their lands are being ransacked. Their people are being killed by the thousands. Their murderous and tyrannical leaders are being supported and maintained by the West. The West has imposed a racist western colony (Israel) in the middle of the Muslim World.
With all of this, you expect muslims to love the West???
I wonder why you would think if a foreign country was ransacking america, killing thousands americans at will, imposing on America muderous dictators, would you love that foreign power????
This post is by far the most stupidiest post you’ve ever made since I started reading your blog. It made me even wonder if you are truly a muslim.
It made me even wonder if you are truly a muslim.
West African I think that you have made Tariq’s point. Because he does not hate the West, then his Islam MUST be in doubt.
I am trying hard to understand everyone here. I can understand hatred, revenge etc. Even the reasons…
But one thing I simply cannot understand. Living in a country one hates. Living with people you hate. The logic of it is beyond me…
For survival someone said. But if without the west a person cannot survive, it is a praise of the west.
West African in Philly,
There is a point I fail to understand and I’m not being smug.
Why in the world would one immigrate to a place one hates? Why not go elsewhere as you’d be happier and I dare say so would the rest of us.
Yusuf, that seems to be a very consistant ‘ace in the hole’ for Muslim/Muslim debate by the most radical. Iv’e heard Christians use a similar technique but only the weirdest of the weird fringe elements (that loon that goes to soldiers funerals and says God created IED’s because America is Gay).
That ‘not a real Muslim’ can be a very dangerous comment in another country.
I believe the IED was created to kill American terrorists, I don’t see what being gay has to do with it.
I have to agree with Nita. If America, from top to bottom is so bad, why do you choose to live here? I dislike a lot of what America does abroad but I am able to temper that with things that I like about America.
If you can find nothing but hate for America I think it is time for you to leave. If you “hate America for the sake of Allah” then it is very wise to move from America “for the sake of Allah” as well.
Joey, I mentioned anime simply because of personal admiration for the art. But yes, there is a sense of wonder and amazement with Japanese culture that exist not just in America but Europe as well. Japan does is not english nor white, but they are as “western” as they get.
I could have used Turkey as another example. Besides being a honeymoon choice for young Christian couples, Turkey is a valued member of NATO.
Such example should prove that “western” is not a skin color, but a set of shared ideas and values.
Joey,
“White People Have No Culture” is probably the most asinine assertion I’ve ever seen in the comments of Tariq’s blog, and I’ve seen many. You have nothing to contribute to the conversation.
Can you name any black anime characters, Kyle? All the leading anime characters I saw growing up were white or patterned on European features. Forget cartoons. The Japanese today are screwed up thanks to shallow consumerist American culture. So what if Turkey is in NATO? They aren’t considered white by the Europeans and are discriminated against.
Being “Western” has a lot to do with race, which is the “shared value” you speak of.
You are right, parallelsidewalk. I’ve reconsidered my position. Whites do have a culture. Pornography and genocide are an integral part of white culture. Everything else was stolen from others.
[...] on this board irrationally hate the west and these guys confirm it: Hatred of the West: the *7th* pillar of Islam Tariq Nelson On Irrational Hatred of the West Umar Lee Funny how two of the most prominent muslim bloggers [...]
Joey,
Ever heard of Beethoven? Where did he steal his music from? Doesnt sound too sub saharan to me. Goethe? Schiller? Heine? Where did they steal their poetry from? Doesnt sound too South American to me.
Anti-white racists are no better than white racists. They are both idiots drawn from the same scum.
What did Beethoven use to make all his music(puts me to sleep) from, Abu Sinan? Muslims invented the prototypes to all the orchestral musical instruments of today (kithara, rebec, lute, psaltery, tabor, timbale are the precursors to the guitar, piano, violin, cello, bass, and percussions). Flamenco songs are the only European folkloric songs that chant for the majestic allure of the night (noche), the moon (la luna), and the black eyes (ojos negros) – and guess where that came from? Even the word Ole according to the etymology section of a Spanish dictionary comes from the name of Allah, which Muslims used to hail upon hearing a moving tune. Even if this was not the case, Beethoven’s time is in the past. Nazis loved listening to his music while they tortured POWs.
Its not about race, but culture, and white people have none(unless you count porn and mass murder, and don’t forget the MTV music awards).
Under Communism, the Russians used to claim that THEY invented everything. Yawn. have also heard that the Chinese invented everything first, and it was all reinvented by the various other cultures.
Zsa, yr opinions are ridiculous. Quit watching MTV or that wrestling show and go write a symphony.
“Can you name any black anime characters, Kyle?”
There aren’t that many, but as a former Otaku, I can name a few “Black” anime characters. I can take you back to the old school where I saw the first and likely only interracial relationship in cartoons. That was in the Macross series (1983) with Roy Fokker (Ace pilot) and Claudia Grant. Claudia used to rock a short fro with some bright pink lipstick. Another “Black” character would be the Pirotess, the Dark Elf who was also linked to Ashram. There’s also Miles in Cowboy Bebop.
There was Afro in a recent film called Afro-Samurai with Samuel Jackson doing the voice in the English version. The film was based on a Manga series. The RZA did the soundtrack, by the way.
Yawn @ all the people who claim that white people don’t have culture. That argument is based on a racist assumption that culture is “ethnic.” There are many white ethnicities and regional cultures. In cosmopolitan areas where those ethnic boundaries may have become more porous, there are local cultures and traditions that develop. I really get annoyed with some white liberal act as if they don’t have a culture. They assume that their practices and traditions are the norm and standard, but in reality America is made up of many cultures and ethnicities. Just, the White Anglo Saxon Protestant culture is the dominant culture and America does not expect everyone to drop their own identities to become American. That is the difference between places like America and places like France.
Zsa,
You need to get some education man. Stringed instruments were around long before the Prophet Mohammed ever walked this earth, hence most of these things, like the guitar, violin ect have PRE ISLAMIC roots, much of it in Europe, places like Greece and Crete.
For instance, the modern version of the Arabic instrument called the “‘oud” comes out of the changes the Muslims made the ROMAN instrument that they brought with them when they invaded Iberia.
Get a clue man.
Hey Margazzi,
Yeah I remember those old anime shows, but you left out a couple of things…the characters you mentioned all got killed by the end of the show(s) and were in supporting roles only. Claudia became a drunk after Fokker died and got killed at the end of the show when the SDF-1 was rammed by Kyron’s ship. Ashram’s dark elf girlfriend got whacked at the end of the show. The only black guy in the basketball anime show SlamDunk is called “gorilla.” Some Japanese internalize white racism. I know its just cartoons, but still why they got to hate on a brother?
Sandra,
You’re a paranoid white loser. Your opinions would be funny were they not so appalling and devoid of fact(Iran! Iran! Iran!). I don’t watch MTV, its for white people with low self esteem(and thats the majority).
Abu Sinan,
Thanks for the history lesson, man. I stand corrected, so white people made an instrument, or so you say. I’m sure with enough time and digging, we’ll find it out that they probably stole it from somewhere. They always do. Nothing wrong with borrowing stuff as long as you say where you got it from. I’m not Muslim, but will say the Muslims had the decency to give credit to the Greeks and other civilizations. Speaking of music, where did Rock and Roll come from? They stole it from the Africans. Look at all the white rappers we got running around now.
Seriously man, white people don’t have a culture, unless you count porn and nihilism.
Hey Joey,
I think you’re onto something about rock and roll. Did they steal it with or without the electric guitars.
I heard the Africans stole their culture from the Arabs when they brougt Islam. I mean man, what is black culture? You speak English and live in a western culture, if you went to Africa they’d say you were an American not an African. Whatever you think you know about African culture it’s really American.
Don’t tell me, you wear a Dashiki and think that’s African, probably made in Taiwan.
Your a hoot man, I’m starting to enjoy your comments.
You need to stay away from Stormfront and the Aryan nations sites, Pat. It makes you sound like just another uneducated white man. Africans didn’t have to steal culture(thats what white peoples do), they made it. I doubt you would understand me if I spoke any of the other languages I’ve mastered. You know what they say :
What do you call a person who speaks 2 languages? Bilingual.
What do you call a person who speaks 3 languages? Trilingual
What do you call a person who speaks just 1 language? American.
Theres a far greater chance your clothes are made in China then my supposed Dashiki. Do you even know what a Dashiki is? My advice is you quit downloading porn and think a little bit.
Joey,
Sorry, I just wrote an exact copy of what you write from the opposite end of the spectrum.
It did sound stupid didn’t it. Stupid, biased and racist.
Do you get the point Joey?
I noticed that, Pat. Won’t be the first time a white guy steals stuff. Too bad it didn’t hold up to reality as opposed to my views which are spot on.
Actually, I think the only thing that holds up about your views is that you’re a bigoted racist and no different from those crazy white crackers in the story Tariq posted. I suggest you pick up a book everyonce in a while instead of basing your little “facts” on propoganda from the NOI
Joey,
Yoru racism is no different than those at Aryan Nations and Storm Front. Racism is wrong whether the person is David Duke or some black person. Racism cannot be justified.
You have made yourself into the very people you claim to hate.
Joey,
I don’t know if this will make any difference but I want to try.
I do not hate you even though you hate me. I am white and I am a Christian and I’d rather know you and be able to temper that hate if I could.
Joey, the best thing that ever happened to me was being in the Army and living and working with Americans of all races and creeds. It truley changed my life and the way I approach all people.
I don’t think of my many friends as black/white/brown/ or whatever just as Americans.
I have black friends I would die for if they needed my help because I love them like family and they would do the same for me.
When I hear and feel your hate I think of them and the way things can be between peoples if we take each other a person at a time.
I am sorry for whatever lead you to this place and point of time and hope the scales will fall from your eyes.
You are my brother Joey and I will pray for you as deeply as I can.
I am an American who practices Christianity. I would like to know why the Islamic Extremists feel the need to force their beliefs and religion on every non-muslim? And where is the voice of other Muslims condemming their violent acts? Please let me know so I can see their point of view. I must say, it is causing a scare in all of us who are non-muslim. The intolerance, the violence, the hate. I don’t understand why we all just can’t live in peace. No one is perfect and should not force themselves on other people. We all have a path in life and have our own lessons to learn and experience. I would like to know that there are Muslims out there that don’t want to kill me and that this is not the norm. What are you as Muslims doing about Radical Islam? What can I read to educate myself about the true meaning of Islam and Shariah? The ongoing acts of Radical Islams and talks of hate against “infidels” is causing great racism towards all Muslims. I would like to believe there is good and bad in all groups and hope that this is the case with Muslims especially. From an American point of view, from what I have been seeing, experiencing and reading it seems as though the Islamic religion in general teaches hate, intolerance and violence. Will someone please show me otherwise??
I have a very simple question for you Americanspeaking. Where do you get your information on Islam, the Middle East from?
I’m a secular person of Baptist background. I didn’t really know much about Islam until I met Muslims on my own…but even then I never bought these wild conspiracy theories about Muslims wanting to kill us all, and impose their religion on us. Only an uneducated and racist mind would fall for this sort of nonsense. It seems to me that radical whites are the ones who want to kill everyone else and impose their “values” on the rest of the world.
Don’t expect people to sit by and take that sort of crap from you.
That was a very nice comment, Pat. You sound like the sort of dude I could go get a drink with(all due apologies to the Muslims here). All jokes aside, I’m not a racist, in fact I don’t even believe in the concept of “race.” White people however see themselves as a “master race” which can whatever it wants to whoever it wants. Particularly Anglo-Saxons. You may deny it but actions speak louder then words.
Same thing with “American” Christianity, it’s nothing more then an manipulated partisan, nationalized extension of the state. You can’t serve God and a country whose actions defy God’s laws. This is why Christianity is in decline in all white majority societies, it can’t exist in contradiction in such a form and becomes a mere label. This is part of the reason which I don’t identify as a Christian anymore.
White people have a track record which defies logic, reason, decency and just plain common sense. Complaining about Muslims all the time when you should be looking at yourselves long and hard in front of a mirror. I can guarantee you that as a secular person, that if I was an Iraqi or any of other dozens of unfortunate peoples who have been mercilessly attacked by white terrorists, I would fight to my last breath, and I wouldn’t need some angry imam at a mosque to fire me up. Its human nature.
Are all whites guilty of this criminal mindset? No, but the majority is. White culture is the poison which has turned white people, and those foolish enough to internalize it into monsters we see everyday killing people in far off lands and doing it with a smile. This is why Islam at its core, is a threat to white supremacism. It eradicates racism, and despite all the stories from corrupt Gulf Sheikdoms, the Muslims have a track record which puts all others to shame in this aspect.
Atleast they have the decency to admit their faults, unlike whites who never reflect and correct their mistakes. No, you find them on forums like these justifying bulls***.
How can you force your religion on others when the Koran forbade that:
16:82 But if they turn away from you, your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message .
6:107 Yet if God had so willed, they would not have ascribed Divinity to aught besides Him; hence, We have not made you their keeper, nor are you a guardian over them.
4:79-80 Say:’Whatever good betides you is from God and whatever evil betides you is from your own self and that We have sent you to mankind only as a messenger and all sufficing is God as witness. Whoso obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys God. And for those who turn away, We have not sent you as a keeper.”
11:28 He (Noah) said “O my people! think over it! If I act upon a clear direction from my Lord who has bestowed on me from Himself the Merciful talent of seeing the right way, a way which you cannot see for yourself, does it follow that we can force you to take the right path when you definitely decline to take it?°
17:53-54 And tell my servants that they should speak in a most kindly manner. Verily, Satan is always ready to stir up discord between men; for verily; Satan is mans foe …. Hence, We have not sent you with power to determine their Faith.
The clerics see islam as a religion and a state and thus think they can force things down people’s throat. Islam is a religion and not a state.
“Haven’t we grown tired of being angry all the time? Or is being angry all the time the eighth pillar of Islam?”
I think angry hatred is a pillar of all humanity — and, unfortunately, it’s not number eight.
The fact that there are angry Muslims just proves that Muslims are people, too.
[...] all of those things are a “waste of time”. This new “Islam” is about hate, killing, rape and murder. I am told by a person visiting this site that I should be praising the [...]
[...] all of those things are a “waste of time.” This new “Islam” is about hate, killing, rape and murder. I am told by a person visiting my blog that I should be praising the [...]
Asalaamu alaikum dear brothers and sisters may this message find u well therefore in good spirits n firm iman insha’ Allaah . My skin crawled when i read the title of this article obviously designed 2 grab attention it succeeds but at A GREAT cost. To put hate as a pillar in Islaam aouthu billahi minash shaytani rajeem REMEMBER the Prophet pbuh stated that every innovation is in the hellfire and adding a so called pillar to Allaah swt most perfect and complete religion which has no deficincies is grave indeed. BE IT IN JEST OR TO MAKE A POINT as muslims we should be truthful in our speech even when joking. Please look deeply and check your intention and if it sits comfortably with your fitrah if u rethink this matter and feel differently please remove this article n give daweh in the proper manner forgive me for the sake of Allaah any good is from Allaah swt and any bad is my own may Allaah guide our hearts and keep us steady n firm insha Allaah Salaam.
Tariq, as a Muslim and a Palestinian, I would like to thank you. Not only that your article was on the money but you also brought all these comments, which we have had enough of. We do not want to be the excuse, the cheap excuse that Muslims use to justify their envy of Israel and the west. Muslims SOLD their land from Saudi to Palestine, chased the Turks (which the poor minds of Islam still think it was a khilafa, an insult to the Khulafa’ at the least) and then they blame the western imperialism. No one denies what the west did, but why blame them. They do not owe us loyalty, our own do and they betrayed us, not the west. It’s like blaming the person who cheated with your spouse, why, the spouse is guilty of cheating and betrayal, not the other person.
Today’s Islam is frustrating and we seem to have to defend it. Muslims are happy when they repeat the same song of “Islam is a great religion, we were a great nation, we invented something a zillion years ago” and get that smile on when people show admiration. Tell a lie long enough and you’ll believe it. Islam doesn’t exist among these Muslims and certainly is completely absent from organizations like CAIR and others.
Alhariri said that the bad Americans are the Zionists something, first of all, how much do you spend of your day thinking about them and why do you let them dictate your every action? Second, these Zionists were the ones who fought for Muslims after 9/11 and won’t allow anyone to discriminate against them. I know the usual answer, they have an agenda, but when do “MUSLIMS??” defend others, anyone? In fact when Dialu was shot in NY, a Muslim, Christians marched in his funeral and fought for him. He was too black for us to care, right? I know Islam is against bigotry, but this is the point, this Islam that is practiced by most of today’s Muslim is a Cubic Zirconium to the Diamond, which is the real Islam,. It is a cheap imitation.
When Hizbollah killed mainly Arab/Muslim civilians after attacking Israel last year, knowing very well where the Arab towns are, anyone knows since S. Lebanon was open for Lebanese to go and work (and many chose to stay after Israel withdrew) but during the war, no one even said that the dead were Muslims, but if Israel does it, them it is precious blood. Why, is it that you only like us when they kill us but when you do it is OK? The same with Darfur, it would have been something to be upset about if outsiders were killing them, but when we do, we want to the world to look the other way. Enough, no one is that stupid and stop insulting them.
As for Whites, they have tried; at least many do, to stand by Blacks. The Civil rights movement would not have succeeded the way it did if it wasn’t for the good white people who marched along and risked their lives. Granted, they were mostly Jews, since they understood what discrimination is, but even those they could have hid in their skin but they didn’t. What are Muslims accomplishing now, oh, yes, suicide bombing and bullying tactics. Muslims, when they really were Muslims, they didn’t have to resort to cheap talk and repetition. They learned to “THINK” a foreign concept today for the “AMEEN” school of thought. Omar Ibn Elkhatab used to second guess his Iman, because he had it, Today, Muslims are so arrogant that self examination has been void; it is always someone else’s fault.
Finally, Hariri made Tariq’s point for him very well (and so did others here) rude, nasty, incapable of having a discussion and completely refuse to be accountable; to top it off, he said that the littlest thing scares the west, and gave examples of how we scared them…. I suppose yes, Islam is not a bully and everyone should listen to this and respect Islam, right? Wrong, this version of Islam is exactly what is wrong with it; it is cheap and based on the quick bully mentality, with hypocrites and irresponsible individuals and states who can only point fingers. Even Hamas realizes that many of the problems they have are self imposed, read what they write. I guess you didn’t read the part in the Quran when Allah said that each person is responsible for their own actions. KUDOSLEAVE US ALONE. PALESTINIANS ARE BETTER OFF WITHOUT YOUR TAKING YOUR ANGER AT THE WORLD AND USE US AS YOUR PASY. Tariq, KUDOS…..