At least 16 killed in Algeria today and at least 20 killed yesterday. This is madness
People like Guiliani are complaining that people do not say “Muslim terrorists” or “Islamic terrorism” when talking about terror. He and people like him do not point out that 99% of their victims are Muslim. Yet, they don’t refer to them as “Muslim victims”.
When they sarcastically declare that “the religion of peace strikes again” they never point out that the very victims are from that same religion. They leave it dangling because they want to leave the impression that these are non-Muslim victims of Muslim terror to paint this stark black vs white world.
They don’t point this out because to do so would destroy the myth that all Muslims are irrational medievalists that are looking to kill and maim non-Muslims. No, we must give the impression that all Muslims are killing all non-Muslims and that Muslims have nothing to fear from these bandits. We will post many stories about Muslim victims of these bandits - but not mention their religion - in order to score some political points against Islam.
On the other hand, you have the irrational anti-Westernism that leads to murder and maiming. Both extremes lead to a dehumanization of the other and leads to a cheapening of life.
Then of course, here comes the world’s biggest blood luster - who loves the smell of burning flesh - with a new tape to praise the bloodshed and murder. What Islam is this where these men like OBL love the smell of burning flesh and pour acid on women? What kind of Islam tells them to rape, steal and rob? I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if OBL and his wild beasts are cannibals that eat the organs of little babies and that is how he has been living the past few years. He probably enjoys a nice glass of blood with it. When he gets sick of one of his wives, I wouldn’t doubt that he pours acid over them before throwing them in the ditch to die. Or maybe he just cuts her head off and takes a dump down her neck. What a SICK MAN OBL is.
Does that man have a heart beating in his chest or is he some mindless and heartless mutated alien from out of space that hatched out of an egg from an alien queen? What kind of religion does this man alien have to do these kinds of things? Not mine.
OBL shown above without his mask.
Their sickness knows no bounds and I have NOTHING to do with them. Neither does Islam
In other thoughts, Naeem has a good post here
Filed under: The Culture of Denial and Pretense
What a sick ignorant ass you are! The Algerian regime is not legitimate, the ones who should be ruling now are the Islamists after they won the first round in the elections in 1991. The secularist francophones cancelled the elections and launched a terror campaign against the Muslim people of Algeria who voted for the FIS (the Front of Islamic Salvation), that’s why the victims we saw on TV their families who were mourning them were all niqabi women and bearded men, RELIGIOUS people who supported the FIS. Almost 200,000 Algerians perished at the hands of the francophon apostates, but your Jewish media in the West (which taught you about the mythical massacres in Darfur) didn’t inform you about the Muslims dying there.
Those who died today in Algeria were soldiers of the Algerian “pharaoh”, Allah Himself punished their predecessors along with the Pharoah of Egypt when they drowned along with him as they were chasing Moses. This is the ruling of Allah, that those who help to entrench the rule of kafir apostates are also included in the punishment. Of if your mind cannot comprehend this stuff, this is just a legitimate war between the Islamic opposition and the apostate rulers, the rulers kill the Islamic mujahideen, and the mujahideen kill the Algerian police and armymen. So simple. What’s so strange about that??? You need to buy “Islam for Dummies”, seriously!
Am so glad you know everything Hariri. You mean to say back in the 90’s the violence in Algeria wasn’t muslim on muslim? Something in Islam seems to call for murder as the solution to whatever is going on. Your howling insulting style is the very stereotype of the loony muslim.
Sandra I invite you and any others like you to come to my blog and see my responses (more than one) to Robert Spencer.
The likes of Hariri are from the Kharijite sect and you will see information on my site about them, their ideology, methods and refutations of them. Mr Spencer tries to make it out that these people represent Islam when they do not.
I hate bin laden and his gang with an intensity greater than that of 1,000 white hot stars. I despise them and their evil. Please visit my site and see the responses for yourself
Hussam,
Believe it or not there are Muslims that are not very pious, Corrupt Muslims, Muslim Murders, and Muslim pedophiles, in fact history is filled with Muslim tyrants. There are some Muslim that do the five pillars of Islam with Enthusiasm but prefer a western-style government because it you look around the Muslim world can you even name one legitimate Islamic Gov’t, all of these governments are corrupt and oppressive even the Islamist ones. I don’t agree with what they do and even enjoin them to do good and forbiden them the evil, but I don’t takfir them.
Despite, this irrefutable fact, you TAKFIR and slander everybody with impunity.
At the very least can you say ALLAH KNOWS BEST, to leave the SLIGHT possibility you CAN BE wrong, or are you infallible, show some humility brother.
I bet the Algerians are sick of massacres and bombings. Some Berbers in the north have dumped Islam in disgust and turned Christian.
Well, there’s certainly no Christian violance or oppression in Africa, so they made a great choice.
assalamu alikeum
Algeria has a brutal secular regime in power and have no qualms about murdering anyone deemeed to be ‘islamic’. Having a long beard is enough for a brother to be raped, beaten and toutered over there. People will uprise against such trannany but some will try to exploit such people for their own gains. I just hope either way, more innocent people dont have to suffer for the actions of their goverment and actions of those opposed to them.
Dave, sorry but your statement is bollocks. Christians have a very long history of violence in Africa. More recently christain churches were said to have complicted in the masscares in Rwanda and many rwandians who survived the masscares have left the church. Some are totally anti religion now as a result and others converted to islam.
muslim-gal
Do they just not teach sarcasm in school where you live?
Dave, apologies bro. Just clocked on who you were. Your sarcasm to sandra completly went over my head Lol. I thought you were one of those ignorant LGF muppets who troll on muslim blogs. Ignore my comment to you.
Hussam needs to also check out what the likes of the GIA, Abu Qatada, the so-called ‘Salafi Groupfor Combat and Da’wah’ and the other khawaarij of algeria were preaching.
With Abu Qatada even issing a ‘fatwa’in the 90s justifying threatening women and chidlren with death for being mere family members of police, soldiers or passive by standers.
See: http://www.salafimanhaj.com/pdf/SalafiManhajQataadah.pdf
Any religion whose clergy advocates for or participates in massacres deserves to lose adherents. Religion may be abandoned worldwide. I am surprised Christianity didn’t perish during the Inquisition or Reformation. Maybe it lived because it was able to reform, or grasp that violence was bad for it. Or maybe, in those days before Oxfam, etc. they just killed too many peasants and faced starvation. Maybe it lived because in it, change is not forbidden.
OR maybe they just separated church and state, and without this separation of belief and politics the various denominations would just bash away at each other like the old days. Imagine a theocratic Mormon state - people lashed and hanged for drinking cocoa.
As-Salaamu ‘alaikum,
Muslim Gal, aren’t you thinking of Tunisia? Everything I have heard about Algeria suggests that it has stabilised a lot since the mid-1990s and that religious Muslims are not persecuted (unless you are a militant or suspected militant). In fact, one brother I used to meet a lot who went to one of the Sufi gatherings in north London, whose wife was Iranian (former Shi’ite), said he had gone there on holiday with her and they came back in one piece.
The situation in Tunisia has always been very much more repressive to Muslims and became much worse during Ramadan last year when a crackdown on hijab happened.
Sandra I know it’s nice to imagine, but as it relates to the Muslim World, if you have not noticed there is an Islamic resurgence, going on
ASIA
1.Islamic regime in Iran
2.Taliban coming to power in Afghanistan
NORTH AFRICA
3.So-called Islamist elected in Algeria
4.Muslim Brotherhood influence in Egypt
CENRAL AFRICA
6.Northern provinces in Nigeria applying Shariah
MIDDLE EAST
6.Hizbollah gov’t entity in Lebanon, (more powerful than country’s military)
7.Shiites is Sourthern Iraq
8.Hamas elected in the Occupied territories.
EUROPE
9.So-called Islamist regime running Turkey.
So much for the spread of Democracy.
The influence of Islam, is increasing everyday. In fact western analysts maintain that Islam is still the fastest growing religion in the West.
Whereas, Christianity has little influence in Europe and western analysts report churches are empty in Europe. To add insult to injury the population of Europe is declining. This is why immigration is now a hot-button issue, as European lax immigration policies, is bringing many Muslims in.
America, however, remains a hot-bed of Christian Evangelism.
My theory is that as Islamists gain power, Islam will become despised as it now is by many in Iran. I suppose the world will be religionless eventually.
Yeah, Sandra, THAT’s gonna happen. You and Karl Marx keep dreaming though, and you and Stlin can keep advocating our deaths to make it happen.
AI,
Interesting list and obviously you respect quantity over quality.
Iran; lovely Islamic Govt if you are not swinging from a crane, one of the true Sharia states that enforces modesty by hanging young girls from construction equipment.
Afghanistan: The Talib started out as a popular uprising against warlords, not bad, but proceeded to enforce a 7th Century Sharia and the North wouldn’t go along (school burnings and teacher hangings etc, my favorite was the karate instructor they killed in Kandahar because he was teaching a ‘western dance’, I suspect you support the techniques of the Talib and OBL,
And so on down the line,…not a list of “Golden Age” governments but one of Governments that terrorize their own people.
Lovely.
Reminds me of the SA religious police forcing the ‘uncovered’ young girls back into the burning school dormitory to die rather than be improperly clothed.
One must have one’s standards, which of the lovely places do you plan to immigrate to and partake of the lovely climate?
If that is the example of Islam you desire to put forward to the world then you will really have a fight on your hands.
Sandra, too bad your theory means shit.
Read a book sometime. Keep dreaming darling.
muslim_gal, do you also say the same about the Taliban?
Or in your view, it is okay for Islamic governments to be tyrannical? Gotta love the hypocrisy of these Muslims who claim to be for freedom, but in reality are only in favor of freedom to live a strict Islamic lifestyle only.
Dave - the person seeking your death would most likely be one of your fellow muslims.
Sandra, has it occurred to you that you’re just one load your mother should have swallowed instead?
Danial - If you think the world is marching towards a glorious utopian Islamic future in which everyone runs back and forth to a mosque all day, it is you who has swallowed something. It is truth that is marching on, and that bodes ill for Islam.
Am amazed that full grown adults glom onto this garbage, which would be harmless were it not for its desire to run governments.
Sandra, shouldn’t you be out getting drunk at a bar right about now?
It’s comical how nerds continue to waste their Saturday nights trolling on Islamic blogs, thinking they are fighting the “just war”.
If you’re an unattractive hogbeast, you shouldn’t take your frustrations out on me. I’m sure some Arab would be able to have a one night stand with a potential hippo as yourself lol
Danial,
I’d appreciate it if you try not to ASSUME how I think/feel or characteriste what type of muslim you think i am! You don’t know me, my life experience or what my world views are. And calling me a munafiq, when im clearly not is a grave sin on your behalf. Throwing around those words at people you don’t know/or you think don’t agree with your opinion/views on Islam makes you just as bad as extremists who make takfir on others who don’t follow their sect/madhab etc..
I never said Islamic governments can dictatorial or tyrannical as well. I have no love or support for anyone who commits oppression or unjust actions whether they be Muslim or non Muslim. And neither should i have to justify myself to anyone about myself but seeing as you referred to be as a hypocrite i feel i have to defend myself from such slander.
This is what i said:
[People will uprise against such tyranny but some will try to exploit such people for their own gains. I just hope either way, more innocent people don't have to suffer for the actions of their government and actions of those opposed to them.]
If you actually read what i said properly you’ll see that a) i know there are people who will under the guise of Islam exploit those angry and volatile and in desperate situation for their own political means or to gain power and that was a reference to so called Islamic governments or groups and b) that i hoped all innocent people would be spared from harm from both oppressive secular governments as well as extremist Muslims who indiscriminately kill all.
As for the Taliban, I don’t give a toss about them to be quite frank. The only thing i would say they were good for was getting rid of all the poppy fields and destroying the heroin trade in Afghanistan which many Afgans were dying from as a result of the addiction.
Some of the comments regarding this post should be classified under Islamophelia - the irrational defense of people or issues dealing with Muslims and Islam.
The governments may be corrupt, but who are the people within the governments and the militaries and police forces of these places? Muslims!
It’s like what the Prophet (SAAS) stated that people will get the leaders that they deserve.
Why is it that we Muslims try to rationalize when other Muslims maim and kill others including fellow Muslims? Killing another Muslim is an act of kufr if not in the guise of execution for a capital offense that is given by a JUDGE, not a vigilante.
As far as Sandra’s post, I guess she doesn’t know or has forgotten the proven role that the Catholic Church had in the genocide against Tutsis in Rwanda and the genocide of the Orthodox Christian Serbs against Bosnian Muslims. This isn’t ancient history like the Inquisition.
How about the food for conversion programs that missionaries are currently under taking in Niger against starving Muslims that have suffered from famine due to the affects of global warming?
There are extreme segments within Muslims, Jews, Christians and Hindus. No one is exempt.
Don’t know what in my post lead you to think I know nothing about Christian involvement in massacres. Seems to me Muslims simply lie all the time. To us, to themselves. Why aren’t muslims feeding their starving? Oppression makes people lethargic and devious, maybe that’s the problem in the wonderful Islamic countries.
Dawud,
I’ve spent a great deal of time in Africa and never saw the Catholic Church as a power broker.
What documents/proof are you offering to back up your statement about the Hutu/Tutsi genocide?
Patb
Neither do I agree with or rationalize what is going on in the Muslim World or by so-called Islamic Gov’t, my only point is the INFLUENCE of Islam is growing in the present, in an era in which Liberal Democracy has claimed victory in the realm of government after it defeat of Communism. This PHENOMENON is not restricted to a region or Arabs, but is Global in nature.
Now contrast that to the declining influence (if any) of Christianity in Europe, and the culture wars being fought in America i.e. same-sex marriages, abortions, and Evolution vs Intelligent design. America has nothing to fear from Muslims because they are being gutted from the inside. In fact if you look at current directions of America, hhhmm lets see, illegal wire-taping of its citizens, torture, imprisonment without trial, and kidnapping people abroad, damn it almost a corrupt middle eastern country already.
As far as Judaism, it’s limited to a little piece of land amongst the Muslims, with no influence outside of the three branches of gov’t in America.
If these trends continue in 20 years, the world would be a much different place.
Patb, should I also comment on random actions of individual in America that has little or no basis in the Christian faith as well, like the anti-gay extreme evangelical Ted Haggart, who turns out to be a drug addicted homo-sexual, anti-gay Senator Larry Craig seeking a homo-sexual quickie in the bathroom, or the senator soliciting the young male Pages in the House of Rep, or Christians blowing up abortion clinics. Is this the future of Christianity in the west.
That’s what happens when you throw stones in a glass house.
Patb, Sandra
Its okay, if I was a non-muslims, I would be scared too Islam could be intimidating, uncompromising, and spreading across the Globe at an accelerated rate. Next thing you know the Statue of Liberty will have a hijab on.
Hey do you smell that, yea its called inevitability.
You’ve got mixed messages there, Actionable. The only inevitability I see is the eventual weakening of all religion. And yes, it does seem Muslims are being gutted from the inside.
AI,
I still doubt your thesis. I believe Islam is a more important entity recently than before but I believe it is expressed in such a negative that it will be counter productive.
Just refer to the blogs and you will note the commotion not only between Muslim/nonMuslim but between Muslim/Muslim as to what is good/bad. In truth there is no monolithic Muslim Umma that thinks with one mind as you are attesting.
I was speaking about Govt.s and not individuals, certainly anyone can name folks that have gone wrong, sinned etc. How about Ayatollah Khomenei’s written tract on what barn yard animals are hallal for sex.
I don’t think the culture war within America is bad either, I don’t agree with many things but they are being fought over in the courts, thru elections, by groups of people with legal opinions in the open without fear for their lives. THAT is America, THAT is freedom, THAT is what I’ve fought for in four conflicts (put my money and life wher my mouth was).
In the countries you mentioned or with Sharia that would not happen, a decree would take place and if you disagreed you’d be declared takfir and dealt with, jailed, hung, whatever. If you were non Muslim you’d have no vote, no public opinion, no representation.
Fear. No my friend. I fear not but I understand one that attempts to deal in that medium. They generally travel in packs for support and only attack when there is no real threat to themselves.
This is not the first time radical Islam has risen it’s head and it will be fought by all true Americans: Muslim, Christian, Jew and Agnostic because in the end those that can think for themselves can see thru the hate and sadness that motivates you and those like you.
You are not Islam I think.
Patb, that was a GOOD post. Truth is marching on! Not sure what all this yak yak is accomplishing however. Probably just amplifies the muslim predicament. The media will stay on it, it sells.
I have no motives, just speaking of the trends that are occurring, to which I am not adding an original thought to, merely stating, what leading western analysts are saying. As for my thesis, I have none, just using the best witness to illustrate a point and the best witness is history.
I’ve never claimed that the WORLD-WIDE Phenomenon that is Islam as being monolithic, if you note the gov’t and movements above, there are Shiites, and the whole plethora of Sunni-based groups, Salafi, Ikwanees, Jihadees, Radical, Moderates etc.. etc… However, you seem to have missed the point, that all of these groups are asserting themselves more and more at the same time which is leading to an influx across the board, abroad and home. As far as this blog, it is merely showing the diversity of opinion that exists. The reason that there is such a commotion, is because the Muslims are finally asserting themselves after a long slumber, to which they are becoming more familiar with nuances of the contemporary western-inspired world, by trial and error, I mean who expected Islamists to win Elections, which makes the West scared because at some point they will have to be viewed as legitimate, if America is so proud of power of the people as they say. The fact that they Islamist are dominating elections is showing a level of sophisticated thought in western terms. The west will now prefer the monarchy and dictatorship of the Middle East to counter then current movements, however pandora’s box has already been open, and pressure is being asserted on such men as Busharraf of Pakistan, Hamid Karzai of Afganistan, Husni Mubarak of Egypt etc.. etc..
For the record, I subscribe to the Qur’an ideal that killing one person is like killing all of humanity and not to exceed the limits. The actions of some Muslims are despicable and disgusting as they exceed all bounds, laid out in the Qur’an and Sunnah, and we as Muslims must acknowledge this, and we must speak the truth even it taste bitter. If these actions are so just as some Muslims assert, one question, who is the biggest victims of these acts ? Yup, Muslims. Lastly, I’m not imperialistic as you assert, or as America is, I’m American and could care less about the religious direction of America or the west for that matter. Nonetheless, I am not blind to world-wide events and trends, nor do I care about Patriotic Sloganism and Rhetoric.
As far as the culture wars,
We need the best legal minds on the Supreme Court to adjudicate the permissibility of the whole sale slaughter of unborn children?
We need an actual constitutional amendment to say that marriage is between a man and a women?
At one point, do you stand for principles. The fact that we have to add to our dictionary every year, the new forms of sexual deviancy homo-sexual, transsexual, metro-sexual, is not very liberating for me.
As far as not fearing for lives, let’s not forget about abortion clinics.
Tariq Nelson, I must disagree.
I doubt LGF and other anti-Islamic sites would purposely deny that the victims of terrorism are often Muslim. If anything, this fact only reinforces their viewpoint that Islam is more of a cult than a religion that kills its own followers.
I think it just might be the lack of space in the headline to include both the type of victim and perpetrator.
AI,
Your rebuttal is a bit off base. You have no thesis, no opinion just stating what ‘leading western analysts’ are saying. If that’s the case please refer me to their wibsite and I’ll debate them.
I agree that I too do not enjoy the liberal left and all that that entails. I am conservative (not hard to figure out actually).
My point is we have these discussions publicly and air our dirty laundry. That can be painful but Democracy is not easy or for the faint of heart, it requires work.
These exact same issues exist everywhere but are kept quiet or simply ignored.
Homosexuality, based upon the homosocial system. is the most open secret in strict Islamic states. Everyone rails against it ‘politically’ but winks and nods as it is so rampant (in SA, Afghanistan, UAE, Egypt etc.) Amazingly the Taliban are famous at home for their bachi boys, youngsters with coaled eyes. How many times can a Saudi woman be a virgin, ask her doctor. You get the point.
So let’s not pretend these issues are Western my friend, we just speak openly about them.
So your real thesis is you are upset about people openly airing their position if it does not agree with your ideology and you’d be more comfortable in a society that condemned these things even if they covertly existed. That and Islam is coming to a theater near you right quick wether you like it or not so be afraid because the Statue of Liberty will be wearing a burka.
I am not an Islam basher AI, I am a radical Islamist basher or an Islamophelia debator.
Trivia question, what is laying at the feet of the Statue of Liberties Lady Justice?
LGF are white terrorists. In fact, a closer look reveals most terrorists are white males from the US and UK.
Islam is not the friend of Lady Liberty and Islamists will govern so oppressively that people will reject Islam as many are now doing in Iran and other places. The main fear of Islamists getting in is that A. they will kill muslims they don’t agree with and B. they will start a terrible world war. Islamists, maybe good muslims in general, live in a self-righteous bubble. It will burst in an ocean of blood. I would also say to terrorists - don’t get all surprised when you are terrorized in return.
Sandra said: “Islam is not…”
Typical ignorant right-wing american.
Sandra is a typical paranoid white terrorist sympathizer. She projects all the failings on white losers on others. “Lady liberty”?! what a crock of shit! White terrorists have no place in a civilized and rational world.
How typical of you to insult me instead of refuting me.
Joey,
Please explain your position vis a vis race.
From what I can gather all whites are terrorists and if you are not white then you are a freedom fighter or struggling against the western white supremacy.
Is this a fair assumption?
Not all whites are terrorists, Pat. However the vast majority of terrorist today are white males from the US and UK. Ask any Iraqi, Palestinian, Vietnamese, Korean etc. I simply call it as it is. Whites have no culture and are threatened by those that do, honest whites admit to this.
Sandra, you don’t have arguments, just racist, paranoid nonsense which whites use to comfort themselves with.
patb,
Just go to google and type in genocide, Rwanda and Catholic. You’ll see links from NPR to Human Rights Commission where the Catholic church in Rwanda was complicit in genocide.
And as far as “radical” Islam being the enemy of America, all extremists are enemies of America. Muslims, who commit terror are enemies of America just as white supremists, and “drug lords.” The internal enemy, however, is the major enemy, which are policies that breed extremism and are explotive. That doesn’t excuse the weak Muslims that partake in the exploitation process.
Who supported and help grow the Taliban?
Who armed Saddam with chemical weapons while giving weapons of mass destruction to Al-Khumayni’s government in Iran at the same time?
Who did business with Bin Laden while we were “enemies” with the Soviets?
How many terrorists attacks had Iraq had prior to 2003 and how many go on there now daily?
How did Afghanistan go from almost eradicating the production of opium to being the world’s largest supplier of heroin?
Failed policies by our government heads is the broad answer to the above questions.
And as far as terrorists, the leading suicide bombing organization according to Dr. Robert Pape at U. of Chicago is the Tamil Tigers - Hindu/Marxist/Non-Arabs. The Klu Klux Klan was and is America’s most notorious terrorist group, a purely white Christian organization.
I’m not even going to mention how certain nations slaughter civilians under the guise of national defense and “collateral damage.”
I think that for something to be “done by the Catholic Church” it would have to be approved by the pope. Individual Catholic clergypeople committed atrocities, I suppose at the direction of their completely debased Rwandan superiors. Then like muslims excusing terror, Catholics could say, oh, that wasn’t Christianity/Catholicism.
I am not disagreeing with your opinion about Radical Muslim, who will kill people without cause, but lets be balanced. Do you acknowledge any fault of America and the west.
1.Didn’t America overthrow a democratically elected gov’t in Iran to install a tyrant the Shah, only to make the facilitation of oil easier?
2.Who supported and provided Saddam with Weapons of Mass Destruction?
3.Who rallied the Mujahideen aka Al Qaedah and the “Madrasahs” of Afghanistan and provided them with weapons against the Soviets?
4.Who colonized just about everywhere in the planet to exploit them, their resources?
5.Who divided, created and re-drew the middle east as they saw fit?
It called cause and effect or as Malcolm X put it, a case of chickens coming home to roost. The West bears a lot of responsibility and I say this a card-carrying or (passport carrying) westerner.
White radicals and terrorists are the cause global instability. No else can compare.
“What Islam is this where these men like OBL love the smell of burning flesh and pour acid on women? What kind of Islam tells them to rape, steal and rob? I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if OBL and his wild beasts are cannibals that eat the organs of little babies and that is how he has been living the past few years. He probably enjoys a nice glass of blood with it. When he gets sick of one of his wives, I wouldn’t doubt that he pours acid over them before throwing them in the ditch to die. Or maybe he just cuts her head off and takes a dump down her neck. What a SICK MAN OBL is.”
Brother Tariq, we are asked to be just even against ourselves, even against our worst enemies. Please consider your tone and speculation, even against OBL.
Dawud,
I’ll look into the Rwanda deal, thanks for the info.
I agree that all extremists are an enemy of society and that includes drug dealers, I’d be much harsher on druggies than most.
I don’t totally agree on policies alone breeding extremism as Mr. Qutb and Wahabism have a hand in that also. The extremism today has been simmering for years within certain Islamic radical sects.
The US did not support the Taliban, they supported the Muj/Afghani fighters against the Soviets and OBL was one of many players.
Yes, we supported Saddam against the Iranians and I wish he were around today to do the same. We supplied him with military munitions that are of the conventional type but did not provide chem weapons, all of the chem munitions used in the war were of Soviet/Russian manufacture and purchase. The US does not provide chems to anyone not even our closest allies and has been systematically destroying all of our chem munitions.
Terrorism in Iraq is sectarian in nature and has existed, the hate has existed, for years. We did not create the sectarian hate that was bred by the Bath party, Sunni control. We set the stage for the sectarian fighting by removing the strongman that kept it in check. A similar senario exists in Kosovo as the sectarian hate existed for centuries and with the Soviet strongman gone the factions fought for control over one another.
Yes, the Taliban did a good job of eradicating poppey growth.
The Taliban now protect the poppy growth for a cut of the take so their morality seems to be situational at best,
The TTigers are classified terrorists but I’m not too worried about a TT blowing up my United flight from Britain because there is no Christian/TT international cell element attempting to creat the Kalipha.
The KKK is a small group of nuts and when they have a parade it’s usually 70 or so guys with 400 policemen and 1000 counter protestors of all races and faiths. They have not been a real threat for years and years and are the same as the Nation of Islam in creed of hate.
You’d be upset if I said Islam was the problem and that’s why I always preface that with radical Islam to denote the difference. I note that many, when speaking of the Christian KKK infer that there is a mainstreamism to that affiliation as If we’re all secretly KKK and they are not a fringe element .
AI,
Yes, the Soviet/US chess match lead us to do things I consider wrong as it relates to the Govt. of Iran and in other places.
The Soviets/Russians provided all of the Chem weapons to the Iraqi’s.
We did support the Muj and would have had no real issue with the Taliban if they had not given sanctuary to OBL. Another example of chickens coming home to roost.
Yes the west did colonize but so has the Mid East/Arabs and Islam. ME/Arab/Ottoman expansion and colonization into Europe did not recede because they decided it was wrong, they simply lost the power to hold onto their colonies and were defeated in war. To pretend that the West only colonized or invented the process would be a true falacy. The west was just more powerful and better at it.
The Brits basically redrew the ME/SEA maps when they gave up their empire.
Joey,
No culture in the west? How absurd. Plato, Kant, Michelangelo, Reubans, Beethoven,
Martin Luther, and on and on. Foolish comments like that open a window to your soul and I believe I see real racism.
I do not abide racism Sir, in whites/blacks/whatever and find the same disease exists in some element of each race. To me the KKK and NOI are flip sides of the same coin.
I’ll respond to intelligently posed questions but not to baiting.
Let be fair WORLD WAR I and WORLD II, which were for the most part European Ideological wars and these wars have lead to the greatest massacres human history has ever known.
What is the only country that dropped an Atomic bomb on a civilian population, and yet has the audacity to claim some moral authority in regards to destructive weaponry ?
I’m only asking for balance, I acknowledge the scourged of terrorist, who kill innocence.
Never stated the U.S. supported Taliban, however their leaving left the vacuum for them to come to power.
Shiites exist throughout the Muslims world in SUNNI countries, including Saudi Arabia, the heart of Wahabism and yet we don’t see the mayhem that is occurring why. In fact they live in a particularly oil rich section of Saudi. Please attempt to answer this question, if such hatred.
America never learns now they are arming Sunni tribes in Anbar Province, you and I know it is only a matter of time before those weapons will be used on the U.S. troops.
America is engaging in a billon dollars weapons deals with Saudi, Wahabi land, where most of the high-jacker supposedly came from, how long before weapons will be used on America.
On a more positive note, 9 white terrorist invaders were erased in Iraq.
AI,
Yes, by virtue of being World Wars they were massively destructive and that’s why we call them World Wars.
I believe they were ‘just wars’ from the US perspective.
Ah, the A bomb. Some history, from our experience with the Japanese during the island fighting we realized they would fight to the death as they did on Iwo and Oki etc.
Japan prepared for the Invasion of the mainland by forming all civilians, all civilians into combat elements and because they did not have enough weapons armed many with bamboo spears. The psyop campaign told them we would murder them all anyway so to fight diing for the Emporer would be a better way to go.
The casualty figures estimated for the Japanese civilian population was in the millions and our casualties would have been huge too.
The A bomb, like it or not, saved many Japanese lives and hundreds of thousands of US casualties. Given our lack of knowledge of it’s capability and the statistics from actual combat I’d have used the devices too.
How many wars have we been in since and how many times have we used nuclear devices even in the face of losing a conflict, how many countries would have shown that restraint?
You may not see the Shia/Sunni issue elsewhere because the conditions were different. Saddam, as you know would not allow the Shia to perform their specific religious events publically and he used the Sunni sect to control Shia areas. His officers, and especially his Intel officers were of his sunni Tikrit clan. After the 1st Gulf War some Shias revolted and he had thousands killed in reprisals. I’m not saying all Sunni/Shia do not get along but Saddam used the divide and conquer tech for control.
I agree. I wouldn’t sell the Saudi’s a frissbee.
Joey, are you sure they are white, there are a great many fine black/brown soldiers.
I’m pretty sure they were white, Pat. Even if they were brown or black, they shouldn’t have signed on for a terror war started and executed by whites.
WOW, beauty truly is in the eye-beholder.
Truly the height of CIRCULAR REASONING.
Your premise is the fact that a civilian population would have resisted a foreign occupation at all cost, America saved countless American and Japanese lives by dropping atomic bombs on two cities, killing countless civilians and poisoning the land. I’m sure those Japanese are very happy for the favor America has done for them.
Was the 75-year old Japanese lady and the three-month old newborn also a threat, to the Americans?
Then you have the audacity to criticize terrorists, who claim to do the same just acts. We expect criminal and illegitimate organization to commit heinous acts, but are the same heinous acts, committed by a democratically elected government, some how make it “just”. Now you claim a moral authority!
PURE, UNTAINTED HYPOCRISY
It’s precisely this double standard which gives vitality to the terror movements worldwide.
OK your, conservative, lets say the biggest liberal becomes president and develop policies and takes action you totally disagree with and China invades America. Despite your feelings about the administration, would you not resist the occupation, and would this resistance now give the Chinese the right to indiscriminately kill your children, and your grandmother, damn your city?
The only reason it is called a World War is because of the Western Ego. I can name twenty countries that did not participate, without even thinking hard. Did the Marshall Plan help the Congo, Senegal, or Saudi. Maurtiania was not sitting on the fence of Democracy between Communism.
Ain’t that funny, a flag-waving American justifying indiscriminate massacres of civilians, women and children
And the Muslim is trying to argue how despicable and reprehensible such criminal actions are.
AI,
Oh yes, the moral highground. Where exactly does that exist?
We were in a total war and indescriminate bombing was the norm on all sides 70 years ago.
I still stand by my premise, Japan was defeated and knew it, we offered to accept a surrender without destroying the homeland but they were convinced they should do the same as Germany and fight to the last against all reason.
If you remember Okinawa the civilians commited suicide by jumping off cliffs rather than be taken alive because they believed we’d do whatever.
My argument is not new and was the basis for the decision to use the bomb at the time.
To say it did not save Japanese lives in the long run is simply stupid and denying history. I would have made the same decision based upon the facts at that time and place.
I do not critisize fighters for commiting suicide attacks on military targets. That’s fair game and is war.
I don’t fight radical Islamists because they use terror, I fight them because they are radical Islamists that seek to force their opinion, thru force, on the political scene and because they use a religion as an underwriter to recruit elements from within those societies they wish to destroy based upon that religious affiliation. I fight them because they are our enemy not because they use a specific tactic.
The Marshal plan helped rebuild our primary enemies at great cost to the US. Also, please try and find another Country that has given as much foreign AID as the US.
Lastly, if we were the indescriminate killers you believe then we would be home from Iraq a long time ago. We have the power, if used without concern for civilian casualties to destroy the enemy in detail wherever he shows himself. Because we judiciously use our power to selectively engage based upon ROE and civilian collateral damage we take more US casualties and prolong the war (that makes Joey happy). The analogy of the circumstance of WW2 do not apply, as you well know, to the way we attempt to wage war today and to apply attitudes of 70 years ago in the construct of the mindset that existed then is also disengenuoius..
If you support radical Islam then have the guts to say so or if you believe that we deserve to be attacked by radical Islam then say that as that seems to be what you are alluding to.
Pat, there is no such thing as “radical islam.” Just paranoid white crooks trying to justify their terrorism.
Dear brothers!
TERRORISM:
Well, I AGREE FEW OF YOU……………..From my point of view “Terrorism is not a monopoly of any religion”…..Well if you consider terrorism a part of muslim monopoly..ITS TOTALY UNFOUNDED ! Conider Hitler { one of the ruler of Germany } how many peoples he killed? More than million…..He is a nonmuslim ! Consider a chinese ancient ruler, He killed more than billion innocent peoples……..He was a nonMuslim ! A recent example
you may know who it is……..? Well, Its the circumstances which makes any one do that….!
SUPERVISION:
AS Actionable Intelligence Says…….!
ASIA
1.Islamic regime in Iran
2.Taliban coming to power in Afghanistan
NORTH AFRICA
3.So-called Islamist elected in Algeria
4.Muslim Brotherhood influence in Egypt
CENRAL AFRICA
6.Northern provinces in Nigeria applying Shariah
MIDDLE EAST
6.Hizbollah gov’t entity in Lebanon, (more powerful than country’s military)
7.Shiites is Sourthern Iraq
8.Hamas elected in the Occupied territories.
EUROPE
9.So-called Islamist regime running Turkey.
Well consider Iraq, Who have the supervison…………?
Afganistan, Who have the supervision?
Kashmir…………….Controlled by which religion……..?
Palestine, Who’s army there…………?
Lebanon, What happened
and there are so many muslim countries which are ruled by non-muslims…….
SO if i say , about the regime of non-muslims:
ASIA
1)Thailand
2)Israel
3)India
etc…
NORTH AFRICA:
1)Namibia
2)Angola
3)Zambia
etc…….
EUROPE:
1)America
2)Germany
3)France
etc……….
MIDDLE EAST:
1) Iraq, now came under non-muslims regime….!
2)Lebanon too…………..!
etc……….
WOW, hit a nerve didn’t I ?
I think it’s because your stance is hypocritical, as you are trying to justify the violence America, committed and view it, as legitimate, while you criticize people who’ve done the exact same thing on a smaller scale. I think your heart is clashing with your head but it’s OK, whatever helps you sleep at night.
OK we both are against people who seek to spread religion by using indiscriminate violence against civilians for some political agenda. But you’re in favor of indiscriminate violence for Ideological differences in government for some political agenda, and the use of such violence on a much grander scale.
If you add up all of the people, who were killed by Terrorist, who spout some Islamic slogan in the annals of history it does not even mount to half of the amount of deaths, in the Ideological World Wars.
I don’t support radical Islam its wrong and we as Muslims need to clean our own house.
The difference between you and me, is I admit the wrong Muslims have done, while in your eyes, America does no wrong or you rationalize it. At the same time, I acknowledge the good America has done around the world; I’m impressed with their attempts to redress their history of ethnic cleansing of Native American and Enslavement of African. I acknowledge the wrongs that are happening in Darfur, and ask myself where are the Muslims at, as they are conspicuously absent in even saying it is wrong, let alone, doing anything about it. At least I’m consistent, If you do good I support you, if you do bad I censure you, on a national and international level.
As far as the Marshall Plan, the price was military bases in some of those countries even up into today. They wanted to fortify Europe against their common enemies, you make it seem like it was done for purely humanitarian reasons, the underlying reason is obvious, but kudos to the U.S. for that anyway, as well as being without question, the biggest Charitable Country the world may have ever known.
See Consistency Baby.
Brother, please be patience…………..!
I MEAN YOUR MEMORY IS WEAK ………….{ActionableIntelligence}………!
Well,
Firstly, you were talking about Muslims extremists (Terrorism) whilst not about a specific country………On behalf
i did not blame America………Did I?
I JUST GAVE THE REPLY OF FEW ANSWERS………..!
Well, WHO ARE AMERICANS, Christans,Jewish,Hindus,OR Muslims……….! Strange………….An american can be any of them! Its not about wrong wrong muslims……on behalf a jewish can be wrong…….a christian or a hindu…….any one!
IF you study Quran,Bible, or other religious book, they all talk
about FIGHTING (I CANT USE THE WORD TERRORISM)…
Fighting for truth, while not as a game……..
Qura’n says: ” Fight for truth” …….In directly form….whilst in other religious books it say indirectly…………For example:
if you say : 4+4 is 8……..is directly…..on other term…..if you say : 4/0.5 which is also 8 is alittle different to think…..
THATS WHY MUSLIMS EXTREMISTS ARE GIVEN THE NAME TERROISTS………..
I accept with you that just because of one wrong person, others have to suffer……..For example: Take “Osama Bin ladin” who is considered as terrorist,due to all muslims have been given the same image “TERRORISTS”…..as Americans are little vionlent in recent days against Muslims…….!
Moreover, Uk’s M.P prisident him self say that he would like to see George bush Dead………..as he aggresive person…
and he hate killing innocent peoples………as Bush has done in Iraq …..etc……….!
Note: i am not against any one, not even non-muslims,including George Bush….as i claimed everything……….truthly…………!
SEE YOU LATER……!
AI,
I was only speaking/justifying the Hiroshima-Nagasaki events in their time and place. There were events during that war and others that are not justifiable (Dresden firebombing for one).
The primary difference that I see in this is we are genrally speaking about Nation State decisions/actions vs. individual decisions/actions. A very complex issue to deal with.
The Marshal Plan, still beg to differ; we already had our Army in Germany and the rest of Europe. We could have taken German soil as our own if we chose to but we didn’t. We used the SOFA and paid for the land in rent while we rebuilt their country. We also invested in the Allied Countries.
If we had a reason it was more economic than military as we understood a thriving Europe would help our economy as well.
The Marchal plan was passed before the Soviet Iron Curtain fell.
And don’t call me ‘baby’….LoL
A simple Muslim brother,
I’m sorry, I was responding to Patb, As far as both your posts, I don’t disagree.
Patb
I don’t understand your compartmentalization of the atomic bombing of two cities “place and time.” But I’ll leave it alone.
As far as SOFA, it sought if reminds me if the colossal U.S. embassy being built, as well as the other military installation, do the Iraqi actually have a choice. But to tell the truth the Allies wanted their protection.
As far as you assessment of the Marshall Plan being more “economic than military”, I can’t disagree with that, but I want to bring up the fact that Germany was the biggest threat in WWII, but America would never drop a bomb on a European, fellow anglos, the war was all but almost over without dropping the bombs, Japan was on the ropes. Do you deny the cultural bias.
And while the world is focus on the over-hyped terrorist situation, China is growing more stronger economically and militarily, and Putin is consolidating his power with each passing day, looking like the Soviet Union of old and the announcement of their bomb, “father of all bombs.”
All in all your last post was your best for me,
And I’m sorry I will never call you baby again sweetie.
AI,
Sweetie, you’re killin me.
I don’t think we’d have used the bomb in Germany for a few reasons: by the time the technology was ready and the bomber unit trained up Germany was defeated, our troops were there and on the ground along with our allies and finally, no one really knew what the bomb would do vis a vis where our soldiers were and where the Russians were.
Japan, OTH, would require another D Day event, there were no friendly troops on the ground and, as stated before, the casualty predictions were extremely high on both sides.
You need to remember the war weariness that held the country, GI’s/Divisions in Europe were going to be transfered to the Asian theatre of war for the Invasion. After surviving D Day and the European effort they were going to have to do it all over again in Japan, a totally different theatre they were not trained for.
The GNP was being swollowed whole by the war effort (as we paid a great deal of the Allies war bills too) 45 % of every dollar in GNP went to the war effort.
All of these factors: casualties, the effort to move hundreds of thousands of soldiers and their equipment from Europe to Japan, the cost of that in time (for the Japanese to prepare) and money, the weariness at home…or…. destroy a Japanese city and drive them to surrender. We had already asked them to surrender when the homeland was open for Invasion and been told no, come get us.
I think if thought of in those terms you’ll find the answer.
That is the situation at the time, everything else is supposition.
I agree about China. I went to a military think tank in 1986 on China and long story short, if China developed a middle class and economic prosperity conflict could well be averted as it related to competition for resources…luckily, we are seeing that. Russia, OTH, is simply in the pits and pretty well run by the MAFIA. BTW, the MAFIA in Russia is not new or a development of no communism, they actually kept Communism afloat as the only real means of commerce and goods for the common man
What was this thread about again?.
Correction this is my favorite post of yours.
The topic went from Radical Muslims killing Muslims to International current and historical geo-political, war stratagem or something like that.
But to diverge further, are you able to analyze matters of the religious as well as you do historical issues?
AI,
Sure, I’ll talk religion.
I’m a Christian but have studied Islam and spent a great deal of time in the ME.
If I remember you are an athiest or agnostic or a Wiccan?
Bite you’r tongue,
I’m a Devout Muslim..
It is interesting looking at the Jews historically,
Muslims are mirroring what the Jews did while under Roman Occupations. I mean the name Zealot is derived for the Jewish group, who blurred the line between Freedom Fighter and terrorist. It has something to due with people, who feel they have a divine right but are being subjugated by people they deem lacking that right. Therefore the inpatient and immature of them resort to measures that defy their own religious principles but towards some great religious end.
It appears Christianity has been free from this ill for the most part anyway, because since their ascendancy in Europe, besides amongst themselves they have not been occupied by a foreign religion or felt like they were subjugated. Also Islam and Orthodox Judaism are very structured filled with rituals and laws, and is more susceptible to group think, whereas, Christianity is not structured, no real laws, and is far more individualistic to the point that it is very water down in this contemporary era. This is why Christianity influence has continually declined to all-time lows in Europe. I’m just wondering why not in the U.S. ?
AI,
Sorry, I must have confused your religious affiliation with another post and I think I know who.
Zealots, yes an interesting comparison. I’ll tell you how I define a ‘terrorist’ by telling you what one isn’t. An individual that attacks a military target by IED, suicide assault etc. is not a terrorist but a legitimate fighter in a time of war.
A terrorist will purposely attack a civilian target to create the maximum damage in loss of life for a psychological gain/event that may/may not have any tactical or stategic significance.
If a US soldier unwarrantedly attacks civilians in a combat zone he will be prosecuted by our own service for the criminal act (as we have seen) and that same criminal title belongs to the ‘terrorist’ we see today.
The Zealots and many foreign and homegrown ‘terrorists’ were/are motivated by Religion (although the societies percieved survival is often a central theme too). This framework creates a unique dynamic where some guy in Chicago decides to crreate his own Jihad in support of his percieved “threatened Islam” as if it were a monolithic state. That, to me, is also simply criminal in nature.
How far removed from the battlefield can a ’soldier’ reasonably be in an undeclared status? What affiliation must he have to be a ’soldier’ and thus protected by international law/Geneva convention articles? That anaysis and sweeping status can really open a can of worms as it relates to those that ‘take offense’ against another people, creed, or state.
Another ‘Zealot’ point I’d like to make is that I believe that many of the ‘converts’ to Islam in Europe today are joining for the wrong reason and 20 years ago would have joined the “Baader Meinhof Revolutionary Group” as a way of declaring their uniquness and anti social ways. I don’t think Islam will be well served by many of these people.
I believe the lack of Christian faith in Europe is tied to the welfare state and socialism. That relativity attitude that must be adopted to accept socialism undermines some basic beliefs required for Christian faith.
The US is far from socialist (although our left leaning liberal - and basically non Christian element are basically socialist) and has always had a strong individual attitude and that does lend itself to Christianity. Also this Country was founded by Christians and our Constitution and Ammendments have over 34% of the verbage are direct quotes from the Bible and 94% of the period documents are Biblically based.
The notion about separation of church and state simply refered to the fact that there would be no officially designated church by law as existed in England.
I disagree about the lack of rules in Christianity as they do exist.
In Islam and the Old Testiment there are rules for just about everything, almost to the point of it being impossible to keep all of them (I believe the OT Jews had 3200 rules to keep).
Christs message was not that there were no rules but rather the rules would become obvious to you if you read His word and created a relationship with God. If you have a relationship with God you will conduct yourself by rules in your everyday conduct. His message was i.e. it was not important how you prayed physically but what you prayed.
I also believe that the founding fathers believed that freedom would not work well without a strong framework of religion and self restraint.
You have to elaborate, I don’t agree with your linking of a “welfare state” or “socialism” to the decline of Christianity in Europe. In fact it would be more consistent with Christian theology, “ do on to other as you have done on to you” Jesus message prioritized the poor, sick, love, compassion, etc, etc… even telling a rich man to give away his wealth, before you say that was figurative compare that to Jesus living example.
At the same time, in the U.S., rather than the state bearing this burden, they put the burden on Corporations and business, who main goal is to make money, and the medical care is provided by HMO, who main purpose is to save money, by dodging and not paying claims, the more they don’t pay, the more they profit. So the system is set up not to provide effective care. This Capitalistic mentality is in every aspect of U.S. societies, from the political system of political prosecution, to the ‘prosperity gospel “ of Mega churches. The system squeezes the common man from every angle. Take the record high profits of oil companies, how does that benefit the common man, they respond by still keeping gas high, to produce further profit. This appears far less in accordance with Jesus’ message.
I think the Christian decline has more to do with, Europe having deeper roots with Christianity, 30 year war, persecution, and dominance of the church at one point, once the ENLIGHTENMENT occurred it was downhill from there. In fact European escaped the Christian on Christian persecution in Europe by coming to America, which became sought of a safe haven.
In America, although Christianity is alive and well, but its defensive rather than offensive, and losing ground rather than gaining. Intelligent design is in defense of Creationism, but still deemed illegitimate by Scientific experts, Abortion, gay marriage etc.. etc.. The Pandora box of liberty has been open and western society can not close it, liberty is fine but freedom from everything become lawlessness, “or not keeping the Law”, which I would also attribute to Christianity as well, as Jesus was a law abiding Jew, who was reforming the mentality of Judaism rather than destroying the law and beginning a new religion.
One thing Jews, Christians, and Muslims can agree on is that at one time or another the Jews were the “chosen people” and if we use this as the standard or guide on how God treats his “chosen people:, the further they moved away from the God, the more they fell prey to disaster and subjugation. Now the Christians have slipped and slid away from their teaching and yet, unprecedented prosperity has towered them economically and materialistically over all others. Whereas, there appears a worldwide campaign against Muslims and subjugation of Muslims, which at this contemporary time is due to Muslim slip and sliding away from their teaching, so we have a small number of terrorist but a huge number of sympathizers, it not for nothing, that it is precisely this UNISLAMIC mentality, which has lead to the worldwide campaign against Muslim.
AI,
I still believe social liberalism leads to a malaise of spirit that can affect ones ability to believe. I also believe there are more ‘believers’ in Christ than those officially given.
Yes, we are our brthers keeper but it must be a free choice and not a Govt. program. Having money or possesions are not a sin but being a slave to them is.
Your comments about capatalism are rather naive and it makes me wonder if you’ve ever been to the US or just seen movies.
Freedom is the right to succeed and to fail. It comes down to effort. No, life is not uniformly fair and although we attempt to make it so it cannot be legislated to be so. Your examples are not true either. The price of gas today in the US is exactly the same as it was in 1980 given inflation, the large oil companies make about 9 cents a gallon profit and although we’d rather have cheaper fuel everyone is still driving about as usual.
I’ve always had great health care and so do most Americans, it’s not perfect but where does that exist for a counrty of this size and breadth.
Ah yes, the fear of freedom and it’s pandora’s box. I’d not trade our society even with it’s aberations for a less free state. I’ve lived in Islamic states and have found the same aberations in society but they are underground, hidden, and actually denied by the state because it embarrases them. Many of the practices in these Islamic states, like slavery, rape, homosexuality, exist almost openly and everyone pretends they don’t exist so they are never prosecuted or a public issue. At least we are openly honest with our problems, they are debated in public forum and can be handled if the public and courts decide to.
The vitality of a free society is what makes us wealthy, the ideas, the inventions, the freedom to take a chance, to dream….all of us, all races, creeds and men and women. I’ve been called a ‘racist’ on other blogs for saying that societies create their own environment. For having the gall to say that people need to take responsability for their predicament…this victimhood attitude I find in the ME is rather pervasive, it’s everyone elses fault the ME is unproductive with no work for the young etc.
Take Saudi Arabia with all of its wealth, where are the new universities, the places of dreams and invention, the arts, the creativity…it’s all purchased elsewhere, they spend like drunken sailors on opulence but make nothing but crude oil.
Last year South Korea, that small capatalistic nation, had more international patents than all of the Middle eastern countries put together. Where does one go for an education? To Cairo? To Damascus?
I believe tribalism, patriarchy and to some extent the laws of cultural Islam have held the ME in the past and assists in squandering the minds of its youth.
Finally, if you’ve read the Old Testiment and New you’d know that all of the prophesy of the OT was completed by Christ but the Jews of old and today choose not to believe it. No, I do not believe the documents corrupted as there are Bibles that exist today that predate Muhammed by 400 years that can be compared to todays Bibles.
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