Ebony magazine recently had an article (not online) about the tensions between Somalis and black Americans in Columbus, Ohio. Charles and Jamerican Muslimah (part one and part two) have both commented on the situation since they live in Columbus, OH and Minneapolis (respectively) which are home to the two largest populations of Somalis in the US.
I have a few comments of my own below:
My personal experience with Somalis has been positive from the time the first group of refugees came to the US. (This isn’t to dismiss the experiences of others) I have met a ton of very good Somalis that are very caring. I can’t remember having said “salaam” to one and not having it returned. However, I am not naive enough to think that this is the case with all Somalis. Had most Somalis been like the ones I’ve met, it would be a very peaceful place, and Allah knows best.
I find this Ebony story to be a case study of the change in direction and perception of Islam and Muslims in America. Traditionally, Islam was seen as something that was fully a part of the black American (BA) community and even an expression of being “conscious” or a “deep thinker”. There were several positive portrayals of Muslims in pop culture in the early 1990s that reflected the image of a “Muslim” in the black community. There are many BAs with names like Jamal and Rasheed and refraining from pork was seen as something “conscious” and authentically “black”.
Nowadays, Islam and Muslims (even in the BA community) are associated with being foreign or alien - and this is not all the media’s fault. In many places outside the Northeast like the Twin Cities, Columbus, Houston, and Dallas, to be Muslim is to be Somali, Pakistani or Arab (depending on the dominating ethnic group of the city) and to be Somali, Pakistani or Arab is to be Muslim. In other words, when one says “Arab” or “Somali”, they mean “Muslim” and when they say “Muslim”, they mean “Arab” or “Somali”. So when a non-Muslim spends years in the Twin Cities and every Muslim they have met has been Somali, why should we get angry when they associate Muslim with being Somali when that person has seen nothing different? This is why they will ask an American Muslim upon seeing them (especially a woman) if they need a translator or speak very slowly assuming they don’t speak English very well. They just don’t associate Islam with being American and don’t mean anything by it. There is no need to have a chip on our shoulders about being mistaken for foreign (I have been mistaken for Somali myself even by other Somalis who walk up to me speaking the Somali language) when they dominate the “Islam” in a particular city.
For this reason, a black, white, Latino and other converts living in places like that are increasingly seen as somehow enthralled with another culture - essentially no different than a Samari enthusiast for example. With that in mind, Islam is certainly not seen as an option since (in their minds) becoming Muslim means adopting a new culture. It is like saying “becoming Chinese” or “becoming Russian”. I knew that things were changing a few years ago when I met a BA teenager in Memphis that thought that Islam was a place and Muslims were an ethnic group. Islam/Muslim has essentially become a race that is a catch all for Desi, Arab or Somali. So to become Muslim in the Twin Cities is to essentially “become Somali”. I just wonder if Islam in the US is forever to be alien now.
Finally, the greatest tragedy of this BA vs Somali issue is that because of the positive image of Islam in the early 1990s, many BAs were prepared to embrace their African brothers and sisters (the Somalis) and probably feel a rejected. Had most BAs been treated like I was, there would be a very different story today.
Filed under: Black American Muslims | Tagged: African-Americans, Ebony article, Somalis, tensions
There has been a similar problem in the UK between some groups of Afro-Caribbeans, West Africans and Somalis for quite some time, though it largely appears to be at the level of “the gang”. I don’t know that religion plays any significant role. What I do know is that there are huge mental health issues within the Somali community - as you would expect of refugees experiencing conflict, alienation and family break-down. I think if we delved into the issue a little more, we might find the tensions between groups are a superficial symptom. Underlying it will be a huge range of other issues, particular to the experience of each group.
I think you may have a point. I come from Philly, which, as you know has a very huge BA Muslim population. I never had anyone, black or white, in Philly assume I was an immigrant or had immigrant parents. I live in Cleveland now where there are a lot of Arab Muslims and a good number of South Asian Muslims as well. There’s a considerable number of African Muslims too. When BAs see me, especially if they’re not Muslim, they ask me where I’m from and are usually shocked when I tell them that I’m black.
It isn’t just a problem with BAs either though. I went to Case, which has a pretty big population of Arab and South Asian students as well. I’ve had Arab and South Asians ask me “Where are you from?” Being incredibly naive I would say “Philly” and they would say “Where are your parents from?” I thought it was so weird because I never encountered that in Philly. Then when I thought about it, it made sense.
There aren’t a lot of BA Muslims here. Islam is commonly associated with Arabs and more specifically Palestinians among BAs and themselves among immigrants. The BAM you do commonly see, exception being followers for WDM, are really dysfunctional and the women are often niqabis in black. I appear stable and often wear Western clothing, so it doesn’t occur in people’s mind that I’m BA until I tell them. It took awhile but I realized it wasn’t a slight. Like, you said, they don’t associate Islam with being American. I do wonder though, how we can combat that. In reality, Islam has been part of the American experience for a long time.
And I as, yes, a whitey female convert, am always amazed at the automatic question that arises when I say I am Muslim: Oh, (they nod knowingly as if it all makes sense) you’re married to an Arab. When I say …. no, never married to an Arab. (love seeing where all this goes) Then they say oh, you are married to an African American. And I say, no, never married to anyone. And they can’t find this even remotely tenable. How could a woman convert to Islam without doing to to get/keep a specific man? Like women only embrace a faith as the Womens Auxilliary” and they will presumably throw out the faith if the marriage fails. Is this two-dimensional thinking or what?
Tariq I have to disagree with you say “They just don’t associate Islam with being American and don’t mean anything by it. There is no need to have a chip on our shoulders about being mistaken for foreign…when they dominate the “Islam” in a particular city.”
It’s nice to say when it happens to you once or twice but when it happens to you EVERY SINGLE DAY then you might feel differently about it. Especially when people discriminate against you based on their perception or place you in a category before you can open your mouth. Some non-Muslims in the Twin Cities are being lazy about. They just fall back on assumptions and stereotypes- if you’re Muslim you must be Somali, if you’re BA you must’ve come from Chicago, if you’re Asian and speak English well then you must’ve been adopted by a White family etc. Can we say stereotype? It’s insulting. And my experience is not just that people merely mistake me for “foreign”. In many cases they refuse to look past their original perception even after they know different. They’ve already have their mind set about who I am. And it IS insulting for someone to just decide I need an interpretor without asking me the appropriate questions first. Not every Somali has a poor command of English either.
Secondly, the reason it irritates me that Somalis assume every brown woman in hijab is Somali is because of the way that they go about it. For one, when they discover I’m not Somali they abruptly end the conversation and walk away like I’m not worthy of acknowledgment. (And it’s not only me that it’s happened to btw). Again, it’s as if other Muslims do not and cannot exist. (Even though we were here before them). As I said, on more than one ocassion Somali people have asked me why I’m Muslim if I’m not Somali or why I’m wearing hijab if I’m not Somali. We also have a large Oromo refugee population (half of which are Muslim), a good number of Arabs, Sudanese, Kenyans etc. who are Muslim.
@ Jamerican
I certainly am not condoning people discriminating or talking bad to people. I am speaking of making an honest mistake and correcting them in a nice way. What I am saying is that a person can go a long time without meeting a non-Somali Muslim in Twin Cities.
Some converts also haven’t helped matters by speaking in an affected accent and fueling the very strong perception that Islam is for foreigners.
Outside of the east coast they have such overwhelming numbers that we just don’t matter to them. None of these things do very much to changing the perception that Islam is alien
In many cases they refuse to look past their original perception even after they know different. They’ve already have their mind set about who I am.
I have to agree with you on this point. I did have that happen to me once. An Indian asked me where my parents were from. Even after I told her I was a BA, she proceeded to ask me about Islam in Africa as if I’m African (even asking about Islam in Africa as if Africa has a monolithic Islamic culture is problematic but that’s a whole other issue).
My husband deals with this all the time. He’s biracial but Muslims just assume that he’s Arab or South Asian because of how he looks and treat him as such even after he tells them otherwise.
That is problematic and that is wrong because people aren’t doing it out of ignorance. There’s a black, biracial, or white Muslim staring them right in the face, but some people still have to force you into a box. You still have to force your stereotype on to a person. That is wrong.
It’s one thing to assume that I’m African because you really don’t know BA Muslims. But when you keeping think that I can’t possibly be black, then something is wrong.
Somalis come from a very strict caste/tribal/clan culture. So your ancestry is more important than your Islam.
Many will pretend that being a muslim is all that is necessary. However, we know that is devoid of reality in relations among different ethnicities in the Muslim community.
I say we should embrace the diversity and maintain the diversity. I am more comfortable in an AfricanAmerican masjid versus a South Asian or Arab or Somali.
Somalis consider black americans nothing more than bantus. Even if they happen to be designated as bantus in Somalia themselves.
Somalis cannot even get along with each other so we should not expect them to get along with AA muslims.
South Africans and Kenyans should look long and hard about allowing them to remain n their countries.
Salaam
Ron
“South Africans and Kenyans should look long and hard about allowing them to remain n their countries”
What do you mean and why should they not remain in Kenya and SA?
The Somalis seem to be anti-black so why should they be in black countries. Unfortuantely, they consider themselves above bantu type peoples so why stay in countries with bantu type people.
It is not like South Africans and Kenyans do not already sense this in some way.
Salaam
Somalis should not be generalised by the actions of a few. Here in the UK, there is also that sort of problem, and some of the older less educated somalis are racist, in my own family I find myself occasionally remonstrating with older members on their use of language when referring to blacks. Even though we know we’re black aswell, as a Somali I have to say I feel more closer to black muslims than others, that in it itself is wrong as true islam transcends race.
Salaam
“In many cases they refuse to look past their original perception even after they know different. They’ve already have their mind set about who I am.”
I get this all the time as well! A lot of East Africans (in DC) think I am East African (especially Ethiopian); and a lot of Latinos think I’m Dominican, because I speak Spanish (which I learned studying in Cuba and the Dominican Republic). I actually had some Dominican dude exclaim “Wow, a Dominican Muslim!” (Ironically I became Muslim in the Dominican Republic but that’s another story). It does not help that my middle name is Valdez (so random).
It is important to me to declare my Black US Americaness, simply because as my good friend says, “people don’t know that quirky black girls exist.” People don’t think we can learn a language, or they think that they have the monopoly over a certain look. Sometimes i find myself resorting to problematic terminologies in jest, just to prove a point like saying “im regular black”
I know that some Black folks might think that being mistaken for something other than being Black US American, is some kind of compliment; but sometimes I am hearing–in the midst of their surprise and insistence about who they think I am– that “you are not like those other black people.” I really don’t like that. So I often ask them what they think of Black folks in general and get a dialogue going. This can be a teachable moment.
. . .and I’m beyond your peripheral vision
so you might want to turn your head . . .—32 flavors by Ani DiFranco
Well i think its good for somalis to be living in other African countries because it will challenge some of their racist views. There is a large Somali Bantu community in Ohio and they get on well with somalis from other tribes.
Even though I’ve met a lot of East Africans just about in all areas of metro ATL, They are more predominate in Clarkston/Stone Mountain Georgia. There, you will encounter all sorts of Muslims from Somalia, Iraq, Bosnia AA’s and some other parts of the the Muslim world .You’ll also see other different nationalities there as well.
Though I do not live out there, used to work in the area. I was approached by mostly Ethiopians. I’ll never forget one bizarre incident that took place when I was going shopping in the area. There was this older Ethiopian woman( and more likely that she was because of her name. It seemed like that of an Ethiopian persuasion) who kept calling out a name. Initially, I didn’t respond. I though that she was talking to the other two Ethiopian woman near me. She called the name again and againn I didn’t respond. Then she slowly approached me and said “( I cannot spell the name), “I was calling your name and…..” I had to stop her because I didn’t want her to be led on. When she realized that I wasn’t her daughter, she apologized and told me that I looked like her child. No big deal. She wouldn’t be the only to do and she probably wont be the last. My nationality have been a life long mystery to some people since birth.
It’s doesn’t bother me. If people isn’t mistaken me for an East African, on the African Amercian side, it’s the same thing, but oddly, they ask about my “accent”. Some do not think that I’m Southern or even American at times I didn’t try fake it. I guess working in Clarkston did it for me.
Far as Ethiopians( that I encounter) or the Somalis that I’ve met, I havent encountered the ugliness from them although I’ve heard two Somali guys didn’t get why people didn’t refer to him as Black? Oh well.
When I read artcles that relates to the demise of cultures, I become truobled by it. Sure, there all culture have their own intercultural conflicts, but in our communities, it seem to be far more pronounced. Several years back,and kept a newspaper article about African/AA’s relations and another that was simliar to this about it on the AUCenter campus. I just nodded my head because I find it to be senseless. It’s like we’re telling people” It must really be bad being Black.”
Some people may blame language barriers, cultural difficulties and so on with these problems. Maybe, but some of these same people( on either side) will also tell you how they may get along with another group better, than they will. To me ,if you can get along with one group , you can get along with all. Not long ago, I’ve mentioned about a Cabo-Verdean/ Senegalese guy I worked with. In his country, he’s not considered to be black because of his background. He has not always been fluent in English, but he was one of the most popular most well liked man among everybody, including AA’s. Why?He was a very friendly guy, he was very down to earth and far as as his blackness, once he came to the US, learned who he was and didn’t downplay it. To me, he could pass for a East African or biracial. The odd thing about him was that he said he still only spoke 95 percent English and at times I spoke something in English to help him, but he was a well liked guy because of his personality.
If people want to use cultural backgrounds as as barrier to good relationships, it’s a partial cop out. To pretend that understanding each other may be a challenging, me be frustrating, but when it comes to it being anti-black, American, East African or what ever the case may be, that’s not a cultural thing it’s a personal thing. Some of us want to live in our safe zones and believe the worst in people and not look for the truth. The “truth” is on unfounded generalizations, bad experiences or what somebody said about so and so.
Having an ex African ex( Though of West African descent), people would ask me how did I deal with that man? Even though he’s now a complete idiot to me now, I tell them that I wanted a relationship,( who was I fooling?Geez!) Some wanted to say that his his Africaness did it in. Even though there are some African men who are very traditionalist, there are also others who are in their culture, but at the same time aren’t like my ex. I liked his culture, but I didn’t like HIM as a person. There is a bg difference between personality and his culture. Far as his chauvanism, it’s in all cultures, but he didn’t get me. I dumped him because he was a fool, not because of his culture.I also view others in this same manner. There is good and bad on all sides. We have to be realistic about it and learn how to deal with it.
As-Salaamu ‘alaikum,
Re Somalis in Kenya:
Although there are a lot of Somalis now in Nairobi and other Kenyan cities which are historically Bantu, a large area of Kenya is historically predominantly Somali (i.e. the areas on or near the border, excluding Lamu). This is because the colonial border was drawn in a straight line, with the British taking what was west of the line and the Italians what was east of it.
Indeed! Yusuf Smith.
I believe Ron has dual identity in this Website. And intentionally making this comment.
Fatima -
What is a dual identity? You sound like another typical conspiracy theorist.
That land the the somalis occupy in Kenyan does not belong to the somalis. Somalis enslavement campaigns created that haven where somalis reside.
Somalis try to claim many areas from ethiopia to kenya.
That is beyond the point of this blog.
Somalis cannot get away with treating bantu people in the US one way and then think that no consequences will occur where other bantu people reside.
As an African American, I am fully aware of the silent war Somalis have against the bantu people.
I personally do not have any problems with Somalis. I have been around Somalis all my life, but I understand them and never will submit.
Nigerians, Ghanians, Liberians, South Sudanese, South Africans, Kenyans all know about this issue.
If Somalis treat AA with respect and fall in line as a family member everything will be cool and we can move on like the family we really are.
African Americans accepted Iman with open arms for the most part. African Americans are a loving people, but we are waking up as a people also. We will not be pushed around.
We talk about the Somali issue.
Salaam
Ron,
If you never had problems with Somalis, yet wrote here what so far wrote, you are plain hypocrite.
You would not have been around Somalis, if they had not treated you with respect?
You did not force them to do so. They WANT to respect you. You must use your experience with them as a way of understanding them, instead of believing what have been said about them.
”Somalis try to claim many areas from Ethiopia to Kenya. That is beyond the point of this blog”
Your dislike for the Somalis, as quite evident in your posts, should not blind you to historical facts.
As for the Bantu, remember Somali Bantus are Somalis too. They just belong to different tribe. Granted they are treated sometimes differently, but so the rest of the Somalis treat each other differently, in terms of marriages etc. TO my knowledge Somali Bantus are not looked on down……
It is disgrace that you divide Africans as you did.
But at the end of the day, I am a Muslim and Islam is important to me. I wrong no one on the basis on their religion or ethnicity. I have church going African friends. I share them something, but I do not allow them to ill talk about Bengali Muslims etc.
”As an African American, I am fully aware of the silent war Somalis have against the bantu people”
This really made me laugh very loudly!
Relax, Ron. Nobody is being engaged war against the Bantu people. This is your perception of the Somalis. They are busy building up their lives in an strange land. They do not really pay much attention to what you think or say about them.
Fatima -
Good for you and Somalis.
Ron are you serious?
Conspiracy theory to say the least.
You know what there will always be something:
“Bantus” vs somalis
African Americans vs “smelly” Africans (of which of course somalis are part off)
Muslims Vs non muslims
Pick and choose your battle I suppose LOL
Im sorry for your views and perceptions but perhaps you will find like not all white people from the deep south are KKK flag waving lunatics not all somalis have issues with “bantus”
YOU ARE CRAZY chico
Salaams
Peace and love and may God (whatever religion you maybe) give peace to your soul.
Marion -
I am not moved. Just do the research and do not distort my position.
I never used “all” or “every” Somali. I am sure you are a typical negationist who thinks blacks should just ignore racism. (There is no racism in Brazil or Mexico).
I am sorry for being such a crazy person in need of your superior wisdom.
Give me something new and not tired and boring retorts.
Salaam
Dearest Ron
I was simply humoring you nothing more, and you got all that out of my “boring retort” I’m amazed, I have to say.
I feel no need to give you facts or figures or indeed any “new” information as I’m sure you already have them all!
Love from your friend with the superior wisdom
Mac salaam
Oh and Ron
If you want an actual discussion then just let me know
If you dont then all the same.
salaam
Having read the dozens of ranging views that have been presented on this issue within Tariq, Charles’ and Jamerican Muslimah’s blog. I would like to state the following:
1) As Muslims we should always try to put the best construction on the behaviour of others and try and find excuses for others misbehaviour. We are all guilty of falling way short off this mark.
2) Labelling entire nations as Racists or Anti this or that is: 1) Potentially Slanderous and 2 ) Inaccurate
3) It must be noted that many of the Somalis we are encountering in the West, as mentioned above, are refugees and are struggling and the last thing on their minds is matters relating to other communties
4) It’s easy to criticise and condemn but alot harder to construct solutions.
Having said all this I think that one of the saddest things about this saga has been that the benefit that could have been derived from Jamerican Muslimah raising this topic seems to have been completely lost. It’s a bit like the John travolta film ‘White Man’s burden’ (1995) which is a story that takes place in an alternative America where the blacks are members of the social elite, and whites are inhabitants of inner city ghettos. The message that the film sought to convey never fully penetrated the thoughts of the audience because the style of delivery i.e the film narrative was so poor. Thus this meant that although the film was a good idea it can never be redone again because it has already been done.
The same applies to this topic. The message was important but the Jamerican Muslimah’s style of delivery didn’t quite convey the issues at hand, such that the audience would fully appreciate matters. It only led to the belief that it has been raised to ‘divide the Ummah’ or she has a ‘chip on her shoulders’.
I think that this East African Immigrant - African American/African Caribbean misunderstanding issue is something that will only increase in magnitude in the coming decades, bithnillah (although I pray and hope I’m proved wrong). Tariq is often talking about the Muslim community having a culture of denial. In my opinion our approach to jamerican muslimah’s comments fit into that category. Unless there are concerted efforts ‘NOW’ to raise a mature, balanced, respectful and HONEST dialogue there will be continued misunderstanding, misinformation and tension.
In many parts of the UK, the level of tension between East African and ‘Black’ (I.E. African Caribbean/West African) communities is at a critical juncture. Both West and East African (not African caribbean) communities numbers are increasing greatly due to immigration and/or birth rates. African Caribbeans/West Africans/East Africans i.e the ‘blacks’ (by western standards) are all dumped together here.
There are one or two painful truths that I feel will need to be stated. I will explain one of the many factors that contributes to the tension i.e perception:
1) In the West, there is a concept called the ‘One drop rule’ i.e one drop of African blood nullifies one’s whiteness. Thus anyone who has any visible sign that they are of african origin is perceived as being of the tribe called the ‘Black people’.
2) Visible signs of ‘being of the ‘black people’ or ‘blackness’ (as it is most commonly termed) relates not only to features but ALSO skin complexion. It EVEN relates to those who may have non-’african’ features and are light skinned. If it is perceptible that an individual is of African heritage and is other than European, Asian, Arab,Latino or some other ‘tribe’, then they are put into the basket of ‘blackness’.
N.B. It is also possible to be perceived as being of the ‘Black people’ tribe whilst being of another ‘tribe’ i.e. Tribal status for those who are of the black people ‘tribe’ is not exclusive, thus the terms Black Arab, Black Latino, Black British, Black American etc!
3) Due to historical and situational circumstances in the West, African Americans and African Caribbeans generally deem their FIRST level of ‘tribal’ identity to be that of being ‘Black’. Thus based upon the abovementioned points 1 and 2, anybody who fulfills the criteria in points 1 and 2 is a fellow ‘tribesman’. Historical experience has taught us that regardless of our social status, language, education, outlook, looks, attitude or religion if we meet the criteria of points 1 and 2 we are ‘in the same boat’ i.e just a black man or woman in the EYES of the dominant majority. Also, historically we have not only been PERCEIVED as being in the same boat, we have been TREATED as if we’re in the same boat. Thus even if someone personally felt that they are not in the same boat, events would occur that would remind one whose ‘tribe’ you were actually in.
4) In Africa people already have well established tribal systems. Only those nations who truly bore the full brunt of the European racial constructions adopted or at least appreciated the idea of ‘blackness’ as a tribal moniker. Nevertheless, even those nations would retain their own identification system above and before that of ‘blackness’. Examples of communities who this particularly applies to are Zimbabweans & South Africans(Notwithstanding the whole concept of ‘coloured’)!
Other parts of Africa were less affected by the Western construction of ‘blackness’. Based upon the degree of exposure people adopted this notion of blackness. In some parts of Africa the concept of ‘blackness’ NEVER affected the people at all. This applies to much of Cushitic East Africa.
Based upon this we understand that at the foundational level, African Americans/Caribbean / & immigrant Africans perceptions of each others identity are diametrically different. One group (AA/ACs) see ‘fellow’ black tribesmen, the other groups (Imm Afs) see ’separate’ tribesmen.
It is inevitable that in coming to the Western World where all these ‘black’ groups are lumped together and perceived as the same by the majority group whilst perceiving each other differently there will be tension.
AAs/ACs have to accept that their perception of ‘blackness’ is not an absolute perception. Recent immigrant Africans will have to realise that whether they like it or not, in the West they are PERCEIVED as and will be treated as the ‘blacks’.
Therefore they will all have to find a way to acknowledge that they WILL be living alongside each other. It makes sense to start some sort of dialogue so that communities begin to understand each others history, outlook and expectations.
I have not meant to focus on the negatives but I feel that history is what makes a people and that perception is one of the factors that will affect communities dealings with each other.
Is there a race AA don’t have tension with? Somalis are peaceful people and I think we all know where the blame lies on this one……And Ron you really need to STFU!!
I have nothing but admiration for Somalis.
They may be “rough” but they are also hard working and far more principled than some other groups that I have encountered.
Their indomitable will is also something that I cannot help but to admire.
Hey ron, I am a somali 4th generation born in Kenya living in Canada. . Kenya is my home, some of my family still lives there and they will live there for ever and ever……………
knowing my people, they are busy looking for ways to make money, business and establishing themselves. Somalis are very friendly people, and not all somalis are bad. I have no problem with any humanbeing.
I have seen you talking about somalis in another blog, you mention how they love to marry wazungu, I think you have issues with somalis, maybe jealousy……… Allahu Alim
I have one question, JE wewe ni mkikuyu uliyokataliwa na msichana wa kisomali? You should know North Eastern province belongs to somalia and if we leave kenya we take part of our country.
Amina -
Your comments reveal so much about you. You sound like a child.
AA will only submit to Allah. I will not submit to your nonsense
Naima -
Somalia will not take any land from Kenya (so spare me the colonial argument and other rabid nonsensical arguments.)
Somalia is already a failed state. Puntland should be your model.
The days of raiding and enslaving bantus are over.
You should be happy the Kenyans do not slaughter Somalis for supporting terrorists and trying to forcibly Arabize their country under the false pretense of spreading Islam.
Do not make terroritorial claims in Northeastern Kenya.
The South Africans have taken you in as well.
AA have taken you in as well. Do you know how many Somalis go to HBCUs.
I am trying to reach out to you.
I have no reason to be jealous of Somalis.
I am sorry the truth hurts and I am outspoken AA who tells it like it is.
I salute our brother and sisters in Africa who are fighting this scourge.
Stop being used as an agent against your own people for the agenda’s of non-blacks in the name of Islam.
Take off the blinders and learn tolerance and maybe Somali will recover from its chaos and you can go back to Somali and make it the great nation it is destined to be.
I love Somalis and will not hold my tongue to make them better people - they are my brothers and sisters in faith and blood.
I never mentioned Somalis loving to marry wazungu.
You are mistaken have the wrong person.
Salaam
Ron,
If you are an American why do you care about Kenya or somalia? Don’t tell me anything about kenyan as I grew up there .
Why don’t you make your African american people brothers and sisters better people instead of worrying about Africa?
I don’t know anything about African America. I I see them on Tv, some of them living in gettos, I wonder why they still live like this after 400 years of living in America, while Immigrant live in the AMERICAN DREAM. Immigrant I mean chinese, indians………….I hear there men are not in there kids lives and the kids end up in jails……….. you know all the bad stuff they say about African american .
Nobody Arabize us, actually i am thankful, it makes me learn the arabic language easily, as you know both langauages somali and swahili borrowed it from the arabic. We are thankful that the arabs came to East african, have you visited the coast of kenya, you can feel the presence of Islam there , masha’Allah thank to the yemenis and omanis who settled here and married the locals.
I am Sorry I was mistaken when I said marrying the wazungu comment, I realised later that you were the wrong person.
Naima –
You can believe what you see on T.V. about AA that is up to you. Most AA that I know are living the American Dream.
I know that I am living the American Dream. I love my country and the principles for which it stands.
I am thankful to for the values of freedom, tolerance, and American hardwork that has made this nation great.
AA have the highest standard of living of any black people on the planet.
Salaam
Ron
Umm love your knowledge of Somalia but Puntland is actually part of Somalia
As is the eqally peaceful Somaliland.
Secondly the AA do not have the highest standard of living..black people whether they be somalis, Nigerians Congolise etc In Scandinavia and similar northern European countries do.(I’m talking collectively in terms of crime/housing/and way of life.
Can I also just say It is so refreshing meeting an AA person who is not convinced that the American justice system and general way of life is racist towards the A Black people!
I say this because my politics lecturer keeps talking about how the US is the worst place to grow up (in the world) if you are black..n I kinda took offence to that even though I’m not american.
I challenged his views by bringing up Barack Obama and he laughed in my face, then he went on a tirade of prison statistics, death row statisitcs, general earnings and last but not least Katrina.
That man is full of himself
Just give me the facts regarding the standard of living for black people in these places.
AA have more home ownership, business ventures, political offices, more black universities and colleges and higher rates of literacy.
AA who are naive and young have a warped view of the plight of AA in the US.
Most blacks in European countries do not have the impact and status that AA have in America. For example, blacks in France seek guidance from AA on how to become a strong community.
AA in the US have a long way to go, but we cannot deny the progress that has been made. We have our problems and welcome critiques from the outside.
We need to improve our communities thats without a doubt. Prison, death row, and earnings statistics can be thrown around without much analysis to support black disenfranchisement. However, home ownership, literacy rates, graduation and income statistics can also be used to support the progress that blacks have made in the US.
For example, I lived in a city where the income and education of blacks far outstripped that of whites and other ethnic groups.
I hope that Somaliland and Puntand reintegrates back into Somali to become apart of Greater Somalia but that is yet to be determined.
Salaam
Ron,
I agree with you to the fullest.
Naima,
Do you really believe that all African Americans are living in Ghettos and griping about their conditions? If you do, it’s far from the truth. The power of televsion is powerful. It only tells people what they want to hear ,opposed of what they relaly need to hear.
Even though I was brought up in a mixed neighborhood( and my folks didn’t move there because of that. my mom wanted to live in a area that reminded her of her small town Georgia roots.), Atlanta is one of several “Black-meccas” that is known for having prosperous well to do blacks. I know that as a child, my grandparents hobnobbed around people who were lawyers, teachers( my grandpa was a schoolteacher) . professors and a judge( who also just happens to be my cousin). Most of the people they also lived around were like that. They lived in the “burbs also…and the homes are gorgeous–in the black community. Besides Fulton County, there are many other majority Black enclaves that are also known for their upper middle middle class Blacks.
Besides Atlanta, you can go to Washington DC( Who is number one and is well known for their well to Blacks), Los Angeles, Memphis, and Houston and see these same prosperous Black communities. Even in some of these communities. I know in my city, the projects are almost becoming homes of the past. Blacks own many businesses here, and million dollar homes. If you ever know about famous people like famous entertainers like Ludacris, Outkast, and TI are famous rich entertainers–who lives in these communites. Many civil leader also live in them( and no they are not hopeless crime filled ghettos)
If you want learn the truth about AA’s get away from the TV.Go to a library, a majority Black college,Pick up and EBONY or ESSENCE magazine or just go to one of these cities and learn about it. TV gives and a very distorted picture of Black people. I promise you they are just as they aill with everybody else.
Ron and peaches you should not sugar coat the condition of far too man Black people in America. There are two major distinct groups of Blacks. The rich and middle class and the masses( them asses). The well to do Blacks are similar to the house negroes in the past. They are well dressed, well mannered, groomed and speak excellent English. Then you have the field negroes of today. You can watch them on BET or any urban street corner. Poor education, bad manners, speaking ebonics and on the fast track to prison.
The ghettos are Americas are 3rd world style colonies. If you can play sports, sing, dance or happen to actually get good grades in school they have a spot for you.
I have been in every major hood in America and I have lived in Africa also. You would be surprised how close they are. After Katrina the people sitting on their houses looked just like the people in Malawi after the floods there.
If the government decided to take away subsidized housing, electricity and clean water you would have a meltdown in one of these ghettos.
joie de vivre -
Nawlins -
Is a distinct case and has a unique history. The field/house negro reference is overdone and inapplicable to todays AA.
You cannot compare Nairobi or Lagos to Harlem or Kingston to Watts.
Mandeville to Inglewood would be a better comparison.
I mentioned home ownership so subsidized housing is not that much of a factor anymore. The Regan and Clinton years did away with the welfare state in exchange for right to work programs that have ushered in millions of people into the workforce unlike the welfare states in Europe.
We have enough public officials and engineers to create grids and reservoirs to get electricity and clean water.
I mean come on - you have 12 year olds who can provide clean water (wells and filters) to villages in Africa when African govts. do not have a clue.
I will concede that AA communities need a lot of work.
I think the issue is one of degree and emphasis. You seek to empasize the black underclass while I seek to emphasize the black middle class.
I consider the black middle class to represent AA more than the underclass. You consider the underclass to represent AA.
Fortunately, AA are more middle class than they are underclass and the middle class is growing.
Salaam
Ron,
I am a white American and I have a question for you , have you been to nairobi? I was vacationing there and it has beautiful homes, the rich there live better than us here. The prices of homes in Nairobi are similar to the West. I lived in a furnished house and I paid $1600 per month . I was planning to buy a holiday house ther but I could not afford . Check some of the housing bellow.
http://nicehomesagencies.com/properties/index.php?option=com_hotproperty&task=view&id=35&Itemid=26
It is true there are poor people in Africa but don’t assume all of them to live on trees. It is true many black people live in poverty in America. I lived in kansas and I know how poor the African americas were. They are not educated and blame there laziness on race.
You are in LALA land so keep dreaming but it is true your people live in ghettosss. Immigrants come here, get jobs, educate there kids while the AA are still selling drugs… doing crime……….. and blaming others. That is why there is a conflict between somalis and AA. The somalis come here with nothing and soon you see them starting business , getting jobs while AA are sleeping having too many baby daddies……………….and the baby daddies filling the prison.
Ronnie -
You are so cute - We do business all over Africa. Please save your white nationalism for someone else. I know too much about Africa to fall for your stuff.
Nigerians are probably the most educated ethnic group in the US. However, the poverty level in Nigeria is not comparable to the US.
People ride around in Nigeria with drivers while beggars are on the street. Nigerian women are in Europe prostituting themselves to leave. Somalis are risking their lives in the Red Sea to get to Yemen another poor country with rampant poverty.
Please save it Ronnie. Any AA blaming Somalis for their problems is probably an uneducated and lazy person.
America is a land of opportunitty and most sensible AA believe that as well. Go to any barber shop - we know our predicament and destiny are in our hands not the governments.
By the way have seen the beautiful villas in Ghana on the coast. Try the new developments in Naimbia and Angola they may be in your price range. Be careful because mercenaries will need protection.
Salaam
RON
Thanks. I will check Ghana and namibia but i love nairobi. I am married to a kenya.
Joie,
Where did you get the “denial” part from? I haven’t seen that being done on our post. The only things that I’ve see is for people to get the WHOLE story about African Americans instead of one half of the story.The problem that I have with this is that we’re only seem to be identified with only negativity and you get a high off it.
You say that you have been to every black enclave in the US. I don’t buy your story. While I cannot speak about all Black populations( Maybe I can ,because I’ve also been to a few of them myself), I can speak about mine and since you said you’ve been to them, you should know about my hometown and I would like to your ” facts” about them and please be unbiased because you have already done enough generalizing . I will know if you have or haven’t. I like making promises because I can back my story. More than Iikely, I will be able to do the same in this case.
[...] would not have been funny if done by an African immigrant. Black Americans get offended even when Africans harshly criticize them. I am not saying that non-black Americans (descendants of slaves) do not have the right to [...]
somalis and african americans are not the same thing…being somali and living in a place where many blacks are intimidated by your apperarance (beauty) its hard b/c they feel threatened although somalis and blacks typically don’t like each other it is usually the blacks who stride towards hate on the somalis
and one more thing”
Somali people have a lot of love and respect for each other…we love our people and take pride in our culture. So when people hate it doesn’t really make a difference b/c the love we have for each other is far more greater.
and i have nothing against African American people btw
xoxo
love amira
I personally do not agree 100% with how Run is saying things, however he isnt talking all rubbish.. My mother is Somali and my father Morrocan, so I find it really funny to see FULL Somalis to claim that they , are Arab or Caucasian. I am proud of my African side despite the fact that I look completely Arab.
At the end of the day, We are all equal; White, black, Muslim or Christian. We have begun to take too much pride as individuals and look down at others!
It disgusts me to read how SOME Somalians will not shut up about how ridicilously good-looking they are, and how they think they are ”Superior”. My fellow Somali sisters and brothers Allah created us the same, and Allah created us equal. Also how SOME Africans ”reject” and stereotype against Somalis
- Ron
Somalia has problems, and yes bad problems but like in Nigeria, Ghana etc There are people who run businesses, who owe big homes and are succesful. Its simply a case of stereotyping (and no Im not trying to sugar-coat the conflict in Somalia)
The Somalis vs Other Africans/Carribeans, its going on in the UK too, its more to do with the example American rapsters are setting, and the influence of American films/games. I have grown up with many black people, and now that we’ve reached teenage years and older, they are killing eachother. It saddens me to see this Black on Black crime, bearing in mind it isnt just Somali Vs Jamaican (for example), but even Jamaican Vs Jamaican and Somali Vs Somali.
Every community has its downs, and its ups, but Ron I think you live in a Fairytale. My mum came from Somalia with nothing, and my dad from Egypt with simple manual skills.. They both pushed themselves and are trying to do well for me and my siblings.
Ron you seem to have extreme views, calm down a bit because your comments may come across as offensive even if you dont intend to.
There are problems everywhere, face it
* Ron, sorry typing error :p
Im a first generation somali living in columbus ohio my family has lived here for the last almost 30 years, my parents came here as students in the 70’s way before the war, many of my family members have been here for more than 15 years, and when i see the newer wave of somalis coming to america i notice some differences. one being that the newer wave all came from rural areas war torn regions and with that comes ignorance and sometimes racism. Somalis are loving people and to outsiders that might never be seen because we dont like to open up to people that are not like us, call it whatever you want early 19th century america saw massive immigration growth of europeans from ireland, italy, germany, poland, etc living in NY. i know for a fact these people did not associate with other europeans only because they were not the same, no one saw this as being wrong they just were not comfortable with socialising with other groups, but now you see these same groups intermarrying but that took some time…..folks just give it some time before we all get to know each other
Okay, so if I get this right, calm down folks, you would condone the tensions that exist between Black Americans and Somalis because neither group are familiar with each other. And frankly, early 19th century patterns of social exclusion were at times down right repugnant. Sticking within your own community may be a survival skill, but it doesn’t do much to help build bridges. An immigrant community cannot bemoan the lack of acceptance by the host community if the immigrant community does little to integrate, or at least interact and deal with the host community. I mean, it can be just little things, like smiling at your neighbor. I noticed Somalis don’t even smile back you smile at them. Things like that put Black Americans on guard. Then you have the dynamic at the mosques, For example, there is a substantial Somali community in my area, yet they hardly interacted with me as opposed to the Arab and Desi sisters. I mean, can I get a salaam alaikum back, as opposed to blank stare? I’m willing to give the relationship between immigrants and indigenous Americans time, but we gotta try better to build bridges as opposed to accepting status quo.
listen Aziza everywhere ive gone in america, african americans are having problems with everyone… in NYC its with the domicans and puerto ricans, in california its witht he mexicans and koreans, in florida they had seious problems with the newer caribean immigrants who too where black. so i know its not a racial thing stemming from somalis thats just bullshit…when you have two groups of people both living in the same poor communities competing for jobs and housing than obviously there will be tension, if its a hi that you want show me the respect that i deserve first. ive seen people go from loving black people having all the respect in the world for them to just dispising them and hating everything they stand for thats what a couple of years of disrespect, ignorance and hate from the black community will do for you.
calm down folks,
the sad thing is that you expect people to make exceptions for your community who do little to earn respect of indigenous Americans, (whether that is white, Black, or hispanic/Latino). For example, being nice to your neighbors, no matter what race they are.
And what Black community are you talking about? clearly, these people are moving in low income areas with high crime, and they generalize Black people. Poverty and disfunction is high in the Black community, but it is neither the norm or the standard.
Nor did you address the masjid scenario. And like I said, how can you call yourself a Muslim and not even return salaams to a fellow Muslim in the masjid?
Then you try to frame your argument based on long term negative interaction with Black Americans. You’re talking about some people coming right off the boat or plane with little experience who will even have bad attitudes when they see another Muslim of African decent. They have internalized the negative stereotypes they see on tv, the terrible stories they hear from their friends and relatives. My friend who was Liberian was told before he even came to America to stay away from Black Americans.
It is like you don’t want Somalians to take responsiblity for how they interact with the host community or their negative attitude towards all Black Americans. I’ll hold Black folks in America accountable, but you gotta see how other immigrant communities also take part in racist discourses and exploit underserved communities.
Also, I know that Somalians don’t just have negative attitudes towards Black Americans, but also West Africans. And you have a whole bunch of tribalism/clanism going on in your community. Once I realized the many tensions going on the Somalian community, I really knew they weren’t going to be doing much bridge building with other Africans in the Diaspora.
Like I said, many of us positive Black Americans are interested in building bridges. But other communities can’t continue to burn them with borderline racist assumptions and patterns of exclusion.
Ron,
Your comment was rubbish. I’m Somali, and what you’re saying is just bigoted and angry. The reason AA don’t like Somalis is because they have issue with their own selfs. They don’t only have problem with Somalis, but also Ethiopians, Latinos, or any other minority. Somalis are proud people, and many of us came from modern societies and for some reason AA people seem to think if you’re from Africa you came from hut dwellings.Also Ron, Somalis can live where ever they want.
Ron,
South African blacks are animals. They not only attack Somalis, they also attack other Africans. These people instead of lifting themselves up, are jealous of Somalis and other africanson how they’re working hard to make a life for themselves.
Salaam
Ron, again in Somalia no one did anything to bantus. I don’t know where you’re getting you retarded information.
Salaam
What’s with the Somali idea that everyone is jealous of them???
I think the problem with AA people , specifically non-muslims is that they want to see Somalis be “down”, or below them. That is not going to happen. They think they are superior to Somalis because we came from Africa, and if we did, that is why we’re 100x smarter than the average AA person in America. I try to keep my distance from AA people (non-muslims). I don’t have a problem with muslim African Americans, because they are more civilized, and educated.
Shayla, AA people are often jealous of Somalis and other Africans ,and that is why they often want to start problems with us. The reason is when we come to America, we work hard, we make good lives for ourselves. They expect Africans to be below them.
Halimo, thanks for clarifying. And although I’m Muslim, I still don’t like to make generalisations about non-Muslims (and definitely not AAs). My family and many of my AA friends & co-workers are non-Muslim, but are perfectly good and upstanding people who are just trying to make a living, just like the average Somali immigrant/refugee who comes to the US. And they have little to no problem with Somalis, from my understanding. We have a pretty nice sized Somali community here in Memphis (as well as West Africans), and I don’t see much of the tension described in the article or by others, alhamdulillah, even amongst the non-Muslim AAs and Muslim Somalis or among Somalis and other Africans. Maybe for me, though, I don’t get much opportunity to see it because I AM Muslim and very open-minded, and I don’t live in the same neighborhood as the Somalis (who seemed to have been placed in blighted and poorer neighborhoods by Catholic Charities) or West Africans/other Africans.
I agree with you completely calm down people:)
Shayla, I understand. Being in America, I do feel that AA people are also my “people”. However, I don’t feel that some of them are “warming” up to us.
Halimo
I am not going to dignify your name calling. Just present facts to refute my position and I will gladly concede.
Most of your points are not worth commenting on because they are nonsense and have been refuted by several posters.
I hope Allah blesses you to open up your heart and mind to stop being narrowminded.
Again, I wish the best for Somalis wherever they choose to live. However, Somalis cannot try to disparage other blacks without their being some reprecussions. The days of Somalis being able to get away with that type of behavior is coming to an end.
I think change is the biggest hurdle, meainging a change in the relationship between Somalis and Bantu people.
As long as we treat each other with respect then we can have a positive relationship.
More importantly, I am not saying Black South Africans or Americans have no fault in this relationship. Black Kenyans, South Africans and Americans must also treat Somalis better and not assume that they are uncivilized just because Somalia is a failed state.
The AA community could be considered a failed state as well. I as an AA would not want people assuming negative things about me because of the state of the AA coummunity.
I say Halimo we judge each other as individuals and not just as members of a group.
Halimo, maybe a lot of AA people feel that Somalis aren’t warming up to them. Have you thought about that? *smile* I don’t necessarily think this way, but many AAs may feel like, “We were here first, so they should try to understand us, how we are, and what we do.” Not necessarily try to “be like” us, though. Hell, I don’t want foreigners to try to be “like us” because the pattern I’ve noticed is that they adopt what I consider to be the “worst case scenario” of us, as was mentioned in the article (baggy jeans, gangsta rap, etc.). I don’t like that lifestyle, and there are a lot of like-minded AAs who also don’t like it. I think that AAs are willing to accept and value diversity, as long as we feel that “outsiders” are willing to accept and understand us and our culture/history, as Aziza suggests. We can sense when someone feels discomfort in being around us. I think any human being can. And for a lot of AAs, it’s probably really discouraging to see it come from another black person. You know what I mean?
Shayla, it’s not just about Somalis and African Americans. Somalis don’t have problems with Latinos, or Asians, or Nigerians. But, often times it is African Americans that have problems with every other group. I honestly dislike many bad things about AA culture, like being rude and aggressive to people. The women are often rude and loud, the men check out every woman’s “booty”…and so on.
First of all I don’t know why any group of people has to be “proud”: proud of the ethnic group/country you are born in, proud of how smart, beautiful, talented, etc. These are things beyond each one’s control. One cannot control what ethnic group or culture one is born into and if one is smart, talented or beautiful (and yes Somalis are very beautiful)it is a gift from God! There is a need for thankfulness not “pride“!
Now one thing I must say in regards to possible resentfulness from African Americans or from other Americans for that matter. This is regrettable but perhaps there are some reasons. One of those may be the issue of thankfulness. In general I have not read on one of these posts from the Somalian immigrants here is much expression of gratitude. Why? I am not saying to bend down to the ground but how about some thankfulness? People that are refugees, hard as their plight may be, were allowed and accepted to come here. Your own country was not safe, correct - you were given a place of “refugee”! Second most refugees are provided some sort of assistance and who pays for that? Americans (either through donations or taxes). And by the way as has been noticed not all Americans are successful or rich but guess what they still pay taxes and so they are providing (in their small part) some help for these refugees. In addition I am sure there are poor Americans without much to call their own who still realizes the harsh plight of others and have personally reached in their pockets to provide help for refugees. I know I have done this myself (despite not having much in the way of finances).
This being the case, it would be nice hear a little thankfulness expressed and a little bit of effort to learn about the culture of those of your new country (reading our constitution, learning about our history, etc). Is that too much to ask? Now it is true that there are African American neighborhoods that have crime and perhaps some of the people in these neighborhoods may have been somewhat hostile to newcomers that they may view as competing for jobs, etc. Yes I can see the other side however perhaps the Somali immigrants could learn about the African American history (particularly regarding the civil rights movement) and realize that if it were not for this struggle the Somali people would probably never have even been allowed to come here. Look I am not even a Black American myself but as a fellow American, born and raised here, I do think this is a point that should be taken.
Of course some Somali people may be just trying to survive and hope someday that the country is safe enough to return to. I pray for their wish to come true but while you are here, guests residing in a host country, please to show thankfulness, get involved and become well acquainted with your current country of residence. Yes, it is very hard but it the right thing to do. In addition try to understand those poorer and less successful Americans around you - you will find everyone has a story of interest. (Note: I sure there are many Somalians that already do so and for those people this message is of course not addressed to them).
Thanks for your comments, J.
Halimo, your thinking on this issue seems to be very superficial and shallow as suggested by comments about AA women being loud and rude and AA men checking out women’s booty. I don’t see how it relates, nor do I see it as a uniquely African-American trait or quality. Plenty of men from all backgrounds sexualise women. African (whether from East or West Africa) men have looked at my body in an inappropriate manner before, as have white and Hispanic men. And women from any ethnicity can be rude or loud. One of the rudest women I know is white. But I don’t make sweeping generalisations about white women simply because she doesn’t know how to talk to people.
J, it may shock you , but Somalis also pay taxes. In fact, they take alot of my hard earned money out of my check. You ancestors were also immigrants to America, so just because Somalis are newcomers doesn’t give you the right to say they should kiss your ass for being here first.
J, one more thing, I have an American passport, which makes me “American”. You’re making it seem like Somalis can’t be Americans, while forgetting many nationalities make up America.
Halimo said : “I honestly dislike many bad things about AA culture, like being rude and aggressive to people. The women are often rude and loud, the men check out every woman’s “booty”…and so on.”
I’m sorry you’ve had a bad experience with the booty checker-outers, but your men do much staring as well - as do many MANY other races. It’s not cute no matter who is doing it, Muslim or not.
As far as the women go, some are loud, some are not - again, the same as many MANY other races…including your own.
Some of the sweetest people I know come from a variety of places, hey, even America. It’s easy to discount a whole race or ethnic group for the actions of some. It happens to Muslims all the time. Just try to be a bit more tolerant of the differences. You don’t have to like them (meaning certain people of a particular race. I surely have had to hold my tongue a few times), but don’t judge them all in the same manner.
to clerify I’m Somali, i grew up with african americans still got a couple in my inner circle, i dont know how u misconstruded what i was trying to say….in the end of the day i got a lot of love for african americans, educated blacks: i see them as being worldly, wise individuals that i can just kick it with learn a wealth of knowledge from, and when they’re muslim its just more love… yall just have a different perspective on life and islam, the energy is beautiful. Dont bring that bullshit about ohh somalis dont show us love in the mosque where are u getting that from…somalis show love to everyone. Come to a somali mosque and if u dont feel like you were shown love than i’ll be damned. Aziza honey i mean what your asking for is very minor in comparison to what they’re probably going thru. And Shayla its not that AA are jealous from Somalis i just believe they might be a little intimidated by us, i mean in a 10 year span we don took over the whole north side with commerce, education and our own banking system. And i heard it sooo many times from the black community so dont think im making this shit up as i go…but they actually think were gettin all of our funding from the government to surpass the black community on the totem pole, they also think somalis get all the affordable section 8 housing because were somali, everything handed to us on a silver platter…..ALL RUBBISSSHHH…..we work damn hard for everything we get not only do i have to work hard for me and my family, but for my extended family back home who have nothing, half of all my checks go to my lil cousins back home… with no help from the government im not on food stamps, i go to college full time and work 60 hours a week and yea believe it or not im only 20, relatively young i guess…well the majority of the somali community i know works hard like this. dont knock us for silly shit like ohh they dont say hi to us, why dont yall ask yourselves why you do the shit yall do, and theres a lot of shit yall do thats in question my brothas and sisters. yall havnt seen the things ive seen in my lifetime.
As-Salaamu `Alaykum
Last time I checked, there are Somalis and AA’s using and abusing food stamps. Not just them, Arabs and White people too. The majority of Somalis, AA’s, Arabs and Whites are not on food stamps and work hard to provide for themselves.
Sounds like David Duke is up in this piece!
This thread is polluted generalizations, fallacies and a number of other terms that violate the natural rules of logic.
Ironically, the khutbah that I gave today was about anti-social speech (thann, gheebah, and nameemah). Too much finger pointing and no constructive discussion.
طوبى لمن شغله عيبه عن عيوب الناس
“Blessed is he who is preoccupied with his own faults than with the faults of [other] people.” - hadeeth hasan narrated by Al-Bazzar in his musnad.
I just that before we start pointing the finger at other groups, we look into our own personal dysfunction and the internal bigotry in our own “tribes.” As a Blackamerican, we still have a lot of skin color, hair texture and class issues within us. I’m not concerned much about others’ madness (which yall have too).
Wassalaam
To add something to dawudwalid’s point:
Basing your walaa wal baraa’–loving and associating with and hating and disassociating from–for other than the sake of Allaah is HARAAM, AND CAN GET YOU THROWN INTO THE HELL-FIRE!!!
How is it that Muslims get caught up in this nonsense in these times?…wallaahu Musta’aan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
calm down folks,
I find your burst of Somali pride taking over a bit overboard. Looks like you need to follow your own advise.
I like how you try to dismiss my experiences so easy. I’m a fairly perceptive person and I’ve had a number of talks with Arab, Pakistani, Asian, White, Black, and African students about ethnic tensions in the Muslim community.
I really don’t see the new immigrant Somali families integrating with the broader Muslim community at the Muslim Community Association in Silicon Valley. They are more assimilated on college campuses. But there are a group of Somali college age guys who go to the raggae club in downtown San Jose and get in fights with Mexican gangs and sometimes small groups of Black San Jose state students. I haven’t seen too many run ins with Asian gangs, cause they don’t fight, they shoot.
I’m saying even the Arabs and Desis say Somalis stick to their own. In 15 years as a Muslim, I’ve been invited to only 1 Somali household. But I cannot tell you how many invites and friendships I’ve made just by attending the mosque. I mean, when you have somebody stare you dead in the face and you smile at them and they can’t return the smile, you call that love? I see that in Egypt too. I’ve had even Arab friends experience similar things. We saw a beautiful couple and we smiled at the lady, and she just looked at us like we’re crazy. Even stressed out Cairene folks, who stare you dead in your mouth, will smile back if you smile at them. I’m not offended, I figured its a cultural thing. But when you’re in America, just understand how that will be misconscrued as unfriendliness. Yes, there are friendly, outgoing Somalis. Maybe its just me. Now you’re cussing and showing bad etiquette. I mean, how is your language supporting your argument? It really shows how you’re not ready to have an engaged intellectual discussion about building bridges between Somalis and Black Americans.
Halimo,
Your thought process is inconsistent and at times very flawed. It’s not as if you need a degree to have insight on ethnic tensions in America, but you really need to think (carefully) about what you say and the basis by which you make your assumptions.
dawudwalid I agree with you , we need to clean up our own backyard as Black Americans and look at our own issues, before trying to build bridges with community who are also bringing in their own issues.
hey lets be clear on this. i dont understand these people claiming to be muslims or whatever and theycant get along in their own country. as i know u guys should have a same ancestor, the same history and the same everything…..even if hunger and political divisions happened, guys u should fight against it. i lived in the twins cities for two years and i met bad and good somalis….u guys should thank the U.S for accepting u here. u guys should try to get a life and quit being in ”gang” or stabbing women….many times the police mistook for an east African..i aint from the East Africa…..be thankful that ur here and if u cant be better than a black…if u knew the real meaning of Islam u wouldnt be here…..by the way i am from the west Africa the peace land.
bismillah and salaams
im from seattle, the second or third largest population of somalis in the USA live here with me and I have been an adopted member of the somali community for nearly six years now….I converted a year ago, and I can say that as a black american (BA) it was really hard getting along - I was called “nigger” regularly by somalis and constantly talked about in my face in somali - you should see how the faces drop when I reply back in somali to an insult or a question about me directed to someone other than me.
somalis are a very beautiful (im talking supermodel hot mahsa’allah) and talented people especially when it comes to building businesses, its like being an entreprenure comes with the (understandable) hardheaded-ness of being somali. and they are rightfully hard-headed, as you have in the somalis a people who seek refuge all over the western world and manage to be successful even when they only know a handful of the english laguage. The key? THEY DON’T LISTEN! they never take no for an answer and you can gas them up about how they are going to fail but they won’t hear you because that confidence and pride they have in themselves propels them forward.
I take my hat off to them for that.
the east african communites here in seattle are large and in charge and the BA community here is making room for them because they seem to be doing what we are not, but one would be remiss not to mention the arrogance that lies deep in somali culture (similar to the ethiopians and the arabs) surely not everyone is arrogant (who the heck am I to say) but you catch whats going on real quick with any group when you live intimately with them.
and this is not jealousy (halimo, maacanto, hiyee?) as I have had SO many somali girls tell me they wish they had my “good hair” and my athletic “video girl “physique etc. (again, I was a non-muslim for the most part and consequently immodest) and slapping me with those backwards comments “you’re so pretty for a black girl, you look better than the rest of your people” - this is honesty
If I said I was from the midgaan cabil (khabil - tribe) I could count on being the lowest of the low, but even lower than that, is BA - i have had conversation after exhausting conversation with about how various east african groups feel about BA’s and if anyone should be bitter it is ME because i’ve listened to so much of it since i was 18, and at 23 i’m still waiting thru the insults because there is unity in diplomacy - so alhamdulilah I have seen the fruit of my labor.
even k’naan (somali rapper, typicaly hated on by canadian somali’s and somali-landers, while people with southern somali heritage generally accept him - and this is a sweeping generalization so take it with a grain of salt) immortalized somali issues in the single “soo baax” directed towards the gun-men in the somalia. soo baax mean come out - its a protest song to say the least. when he said “we lose lives over khabil’s name” meaning we kill people simply based on what tribe they come from - sounds like bloods and crips kinda
- you cant say that’s not that ibliss “i am better than he” type attitude working there.
Most east African immigrant groups play a superiority game with BAs - let’s not front about it, its like, whenever im in africa im treated like i’m almost a white person (aka royalty)- I even got called Mzungu (english, or white person in kiswahilli) but those same groups of people (whether kikuyu or somali), once they live in america they look down at us with disdain - but the truth is that the same thing that was done to the BA community is being done to the somali community by the american govt and I think its having a humbling affect, they are ashamed of the broken homes caused by welfare that they used to ridicule african americans for having…
african americans are a curious and outspoken people but we are not, as a collective culture, arrogant people like the somalis TEND to be - and yes, I have been from kenya, to uganda, to t